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Old 01-16-12, 06:43 PM   #1
Ryland
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Default Cost to install Air Source Heat Pump?

I'm trying to decide if I should get an air source heat pump, I'm not feeling up to hacking my own together and I'm not sure if my co-home-owner would go for it either, so I'm thinking of a mini-split to function as A/C and dehumidification in the summer and supplemental heat in the spring and fall when we only need to heat the house a little bit above the outdoor temp, I don't see it being worth competing with the low cost of running a natural gas furnace so running a heat pump in the colder parts of the year doesn't seem practical.
So what I'm looking at are the single head, 9,000BUT or so heat pumps and having it in the living room because that is the largest room in the house and is also on the north side of the house.
I can do all of the wiring and bolting everything together, but I've never worked with a refrigeration system before so that part I'd want to hire out, I'm also looking at units that are on the energy star list and seeing prices of $1,500 or so.
I think that last summer we ran the A/C maybe 25 or 30 days over the entire summer, an hour or so per day, but we also have the dehumidifier in the basement that is running a few hours per day so a heat pump that dehumidifies would make that run less as well in the summer.
So my main reason for asking these questions is to figure out if we should just go with buying a new energy star rated window a/c unit or is the long term savings of a mini split worth it.

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Old 01-16-12, 08:47 PM   #2
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I'm trying to decide...
Mini-Splits are much quieter, to the point that it is hard to know that they are running most of the time.

They are more efficient too.

If you are unsure if you can DIY an install, check out Xringer's install thread.

It is well illustrated and described. Quite a few other people have installed their own from reading his thread.

Xringer was hesitant too, until I talked him into it.

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Old 01-16-12, 10:10 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by AC_Hacker View Post
If you are unsure if you can DIY an install, check out Xringer's install thread.

It is well illustrated and described. Quite a few other people have installed their own from reading his thread.

Xringer was hesitant too, until I talked him into it.

-AC_Hacker.
I read some of his threads and I got the impression that he still hired someone else to pull a vacuum and install the refrigerant, something I don't think I have the tools to do, other then that it's all compression fittings, right? but charging the system is something that I think is beyond me unless I'm missing something.

I like the idea of it being quieter and more efficient and my co-home-owner does as well, but if it's a cost of $1,000 or more over a window unit... that would be hard to justify.
Other reason for wanting to do this is we don't have any form of solid fuel heat in my house, it's on a city lot too so our heating options are pretty limited and we'd like to have an option other then natural gas and at some point would like to install PV panels, this might happen sooner rather then later, so a heat pump seems like a good option for running off solar for some home grown heat.
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Old 01-17-12, 12:55 PM   #4
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I like the idea of it being quieter and more efficient and my co-home-owner does as well, but if it's a cost of $1,000 or more over a window unit... that would be hard to justify.
If your 'co-home-owner' knew how quiet and effective a mini-split system actually is, she (or he) would bribe you and coax and cajole you until you went the mini-split route.

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Old 01-17-12, 05:31 PM   #5
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If your 'co-home-owner' knew how quiet and effective a mini-split system actually is, she would bribe you and coax and cajole you until you went the mini-split route.

-AC_Hacker
That was one of my thoughts as well, she does like the peace and quite and even the heating side of it will be quieter then our Lenex Pulse furnace that makes a loud rumbling from it's pulsed combustion chamber.
Trouble is, we both only work part time and are not rich, so cost is an issue, but we do have our priorities and a long term outlook.

I was told that some of these mini splits might already be charged and that making the connections with the compression fittings puncture the seal, allowing it to be put together without having someone come out to charge the system, is this correct or common? if this is the case then the install should be pretty straight foreword and simple, right?
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Old 01-17-12, 06:26 PM   #6
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I was told that some of these mini splits might already be charged...
They all come with the outside unit pre-charged.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryland View Post
and that making the connections with the compression fittings puncture the seal, allowing it to be put together without having someone come out to charge the system, is this correct or common?
The technology is changing fast, but I do know that there are systems that are set up to fully accommodate home installation.

To be quite honest, I overcame the HVAC tool hurdle early in the game, and that since then, my focus has been on performance and efficiency, rather than on 'no-tool' installations.

If you think that you don't have the confidence to rise to the challenge of DIY install, you probably shouldn't attempt it.

Having said that, Xringer was leery of a total DIY on his Sanyo that you read about, and he called a tech to come and anoint the unit with holy water. Subsequently, he acquired an additional Sanyo, same size, and he did successfully do a total DIY install.

But Xringer was something of a tech-head before he went on to full HVAC glory. It is well to know what you are and perhaps more importantly are not capable of.

-AC_Hacker





if this is the case then the install should be pretty straight foreword and simple, right?[/QUOTE]
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Old 08-02-12, 06:42 PM   #7
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Default Critiques of this quote?

Anyone have a response to this quote? Some context: I am in a very mild Southern Cali coastal climate, I am sealing and insulating the house, it is currently 1472 sqft and will expand to 1900 sqft, power rates are $0.14/kwh for first 307 kwh and then rates start going up until the jump to $0.25 and $0.28 after 610kwh/month. I plan to install solar power. I do not need cooling much more than a couple days a year. This will mainly be for "winter" heating, when lowest nighttime temps will get down to ~40 degrees F.

Quote:
Scope-Of-Services

1. Furnace: Remove existing (non-functioning) Tempstar gas furnace.

2. Evaporator coil: Install horizontal heat pump fan coil underneath house. Install external drain pan.

3. Condensing Unit: Install heat pump condensing unit in rear yard on 3” high pad.

4. Flue piping: Existing to be abandoned.

5. Ductwork: Adapt to existing flexible ductwork. Install 2 new supply air grilles in floor of living and dining room. Install 2nd filter return grille low on living room wall.

6. Condensate piping: Install condensate pump and piping to approved receptacle.

7. Refrigerant piping: Install insulated refrigerant piping from fan coil to heat pump.

8. Gas piping: Cap off gas line under house.

9. Controls: Furnish and install new Honeywell Focus Pro 6000 digital programmable thermostat.

10. Electrical: Install 2 new 208/230 electric breaker, conduit and wire from meter to fan coil and heat pump.

11. Warranty: Provide manufacturer’s warranty on equipment & 1 year parts & labor.

Amana heat pump equipment:
Fan coil model Heat pump model Tons SEER/EER DB Installed cost
ARUF303016 ASZ13030 2.5 13.0/11.0 72 $6,430.00
ARUF314216 ASZ14030 2.5 14.0/12.0 72 $7,080.00

Amana 80% afue, 60,000 btu’s gas furnace with air conditioning:
Furnace model A/C model Tons SEER/EER DB Installed cost
AMH80603AX ASX13030 2.5 13.0/11.0 72 $6,380.00
AMH80603AX ASX14030 2.5 14.0/12.0 72 $6,780.00
(Includes adapting to flue vent and gas line)

Warranty: 10-yr fan coil and furnace parts, 10-yr heat pump and a/c compressor part. Lifetime furnace replacement if stainless steel heat exchanger fails. Amana 14 SEER units have a lifetime unit replacement if the compressor fails.

Prices include all equipment, materials, tax and labor.

Option # – Permits
Provide city permits.
Cost - Service charge of $75.00 plus cost of permits, licenses & HERS rater.
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Old 08-03-12, 12:48 PM   #8
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Anyone have a response to this quote?
My response is that your question is too vague to respond to.

What is your real question?

-AC
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Old 08-03-12, 03:17 PM   #9
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhizomatic View Post
Anyone have a response to this quote?
Quote:
Amana heat pump equipment:
Fan coil model Heat pump model Tons SEER/EER DB Installed cost
ARUF303016 ASZ13030 2.5 13.0/11.0 72 $6,430.00
ARUF314216 ASZ14030 2.5 14.0/12.0 72 $7,080.00

Amana 80% afue, 60,000 btu’s gas furnace with air conditioning:
Furnace model A/C model Tons SEER/EER DB Installed cost
AMH80603AX ASX13030 2.5 13.0/11.0 72 $6,380.00
AMH80603AX ASX14030 2.5 14.0/12.0 72 $6,780.00
Sounds a little high. I paid the installer about 7k last year for my 4 ton 16 SEER system. (heat pump heater, no gas) It was a complete new system including new wire from the breaker.

2.5 ton should be plenty with your climate. I could probably get by with 3.5 in my 2400 sq ft house here in TX, where our summer is hotter and our winter colder than yours.
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Old 08-05-12, 06:37 AM   #10
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My response is that your question is too vague to respond to.

What is your real question?

-AC
haha! This response will do, though the open ended question was to allow issues that I am not specifically questioning to come up, such as the electrical wiring aspect PaleMelanesian raised. I am mostly concerned about performance and value: what SEER, COP, or HSPF numbers should be my bottom threshold and what brand manufacturers, if any, would you prefer? Thanks.

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