EcoRenovator  

Go Back   EcoRenovator > Off Topic > For Sale / Trade / Wanted / Web Finds
Advanced Search
 


Blog 60+ Home Energy Saving Tips Recent Posts Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-20-16, 05:31 PM   #1
Xringer
Lex Parsimoniae
 
Xringer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Woburn, MA
Posts: 4,918
Thanks: 114
Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts
Default Gree Neo units on sale..

Single Zone Ductless Mini Split Systems : Gree and NEO

Seems like the mark-down on these is a lot more than other models..
Some of them look like half off.?.

__________________
My hobby is installing & trying to repair mini-splits
EPA 608 Type 1 Technician Certification ~ 5 lbs or less..
Xringer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-16, 08:27 PM   #2
philb
Apprentice EcoRenovator
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 155
Thanks: 58
Thanked 17 Times in 14 Posts
Default

Thanks for the heads up Rich.
I noticed the Gree NEO12HP115V1A 12,000 btu units do not come with a line set. Is it advisable to buy the line set or can one be made from copper rolls from HD or Lowes? I'm in the learning stage.
philb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-16, 08:56 PM   #3
Xringer
Lex Parsimoniae
 
Xringer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Woburn, MA
Posts: 4,918
Thanks: 114
Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts
Default

My new 25' lineset came from ComfortUp. I assume they were made by some vendor somewhere.
The insulation was pretty short on the 5/8" line and the flares weren't that great..
But the Gree system seem to be very nice. I just installed a Gree Crown system,
(started it up today) and so far I'm really liking it.

Not sure if the copper tube from HD or Lowes is the 'right stuff'..
I have only purchased 2 systems and both came with line sets.
One line set for a repaired system came from Ebay..
It was made of aluminum with copper tube bonded to the ends..
It's been in service for a few years now, without any leaks..

Some mini-splits ship with two connectors that have been placed on
the service ports, to protect the threads. Plus my Crown system came
with two more connectors in the manual bag..
So, I could have made some DIY lines.. Just would have needed the copper
tubes and the insulation..


Just looked this up and it's less than $80 shipped.. Seems like a good price.
https://www.amazon.com/Line-12000-18...ct_top?ie=UTF8
"Line Set 12000/18000 BTU Mini Split Air Conditioner (1/4” X 1/2") -
All Copper (16 Ft) with Insulation - Flared Fittings/Quick Connect "
__________________
My hobby is installing & trying to repair mini-splits
EPA 608 Type 1 Technician Certification ~ 5 lbs or less..
Xringer is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Xringer For This Useful Post:
philb (09-20-16)
Old 09-22-16, 12:09 PM   #4
AC_Hacker
Supreme EcoRenovator
 
AC_Hacker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,004
Thanks: 303
Thanked 723 Times in 534 Posts
Default

I was looking over these specs on the Gree NEO09230V-143815

GREE Neo 9,000 BTU Ductless Mini Split A/C FREE 15' Line Set

If you intend to use a Mini-Split when your most challenging season is summer, then the SEER rating make the best performance-identifier for comparison.

But if you intend to use a Mini-Split when your most challenging season is winter you would use HSPF (Heating Season Performance Factor) instead.

Looking at the specs, it seems odd that the rated capacity is the same for heating and cooling, since in cooling, the unit has to dump the heat from the compressor, along with its real work which is cooling the target area. Likewise, these units advantageously utilize the heat from the compressor when heating. So, it just doesn't add up.

Also, when looking over the specs for heating (my intended use) the COP is very important. The specs site COP=3.8.

However, I can calculate the heating season COP by dividing the HPSF (9.8) by 3.412.

When I do this COP = 9.8 / 3.412

I get 2.87221570926143 = COP = 2.9

That's big difference.

COP is always higher for heating than it is for cooling because of the contribution of the compressor heat.

These are very squishy specs.

-AC
__________________
I'm not an HVAC technician. In fact, I'm barely even a hacker...
AC_Hacker is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to AC_Hacker For This Useful Post:
stevehull (09-22-16)
Old 09-22-16, 03:03 PM   #5
Xringer
Lex Parsimoniae
 
Xringer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Woburn, MA
Posts: 4,918
Thanks: 114
Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts
Default

I think it says the same thing (3.8) here too:
http://17uo7e27w1attiybs22of10v.wpen...e-V2.2-Web.pdf
__________________
My hobby is installing & trying to repair mini-splits
EPA 608 Type 1 Technician Certification ~ 5 lbs or less..
Xringer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-16, 04:14 PM   #6
MN Renovator
Less usage=Cheaper bills
 
MN Renovator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 939
Thanks: 41
Thanked 116 Times in 90 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AC_Hacker View Post
COP is always higher for heating than it is for cooling because of the contribution of the compressor heat.
Depends on the temperature outside when heating. Try this statement in a Minnesota climate where we've had January averages of 20f, not to mention the colder overnight temperatures. We usually get 10 below zero fahrenheit overnight lows temperatures about 5 times a year here and normally get the lowest temp under -20f once a year. Getting 40 degrees as a high is a lucky January occurrence. The AHRI ratings of 17f are a joke in my climate, we need sub-zero data. ..especially since some of the most efficient mini-split brands can now handle these temperatures without being in constant defrost with an above average envelope and proper capacity sizing.
MN Renovator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-16, 05:06 PM   #7
pinballlooking
Super Moderator
 
pinballlooking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: SC
Posts: 2,923
Thanks: 172
Thanked 564 Times in 463 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MN Renovator View Post
Depends on the temperature outside when heating. Try this statement in a Minnesota climate where we've had January averages of 20f, not to mention the colder overnight temperatures. We usually get 10 below zero fahrenheit overnight lows temperatures about 5 times a year here and normally get the lowest temp under -20f once a year. Getting 40 degrees as a high is a lucky January occurrence. The AHRI ratings of 17f are a joke in my climate, we need sub-zero data. ..especially since some of the most efficient mini-split brands can now handle these temperatures without being in constant defrost with an above average envelope and proper capacity sizing.
Where you are the crown series is the only one you would even consider.
I would only look at their Terra and Crown series.
The crown series has a two stage inverter compressor.
__________________
Current project Aquaponics system , Passive Solar Greenhouse build

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Solar Install 12.5 Kwh-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Mini Split installs -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

EV Chevy Volt -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
pinballlooking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-16, 02:33 PM   #8
jeff5may
Supreme EcoRenovator
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: elizabethtown, ky, USA
Posts: 2,428
Thanks: 431
Thanked 619 Times in 517 Posts
Send a message via Yahoo to jeff5may
Default

I am curious what a two stage inverter compressor has inside it. Does the thing revolve slower at stage one, using less energy in low stage? Or does some mechanism inside change the displacement or volumetric efficiency somehow? The answer seems elusive, to say the least.

Regarding low outdoor temperature operation, there are not a whole lot of heat pumps that do well near or below frost conditions. Most of the more economical units are designed with primarily cooling in mind, and are meant to provide supplemental heating only. Lots of these units go into "standby" or "backup heat" mode when outdoor temperatures approach freezing. Below this outdoor temperature, if they provide heat, it is done with low efficiency resistive heat strips, just like nearly every fullsize split heat pump on the market.

If you are looking for a mini split heat pump that does relatively well below 0 degF, you have your work cut out for you. Up until the last decade, only a handful of units were available at all. Of these few, the jury was split as to the effective heating ability versus efficiency at frigid temperatures. Prospective buyers had to choose between capacity loss at decent efficiency or efficiency loss at decent capacity. The two that come to mind are the Fujitsu halcyon, which had a linear capacity loss as outdoor temperature dropped, and the Mitsubishi hyper-heat, which attempted to maintain BTU output by running the compressor as fast as it could. The Mitsubishi also had supplemental heat strips to keep the discharge air temperature high when the compressor could only supply "warmed" air.

Looking at today's offerings, the units that are designed for ultra-low ambient temperature heating mode operation nearly all boast SEER ratings close to 30. They are not your everyday, general purpose mini-split units (like the NEO series). Most customers still aren't installing a mini-split as a primary system, and aren't trying to pay double for a unit is stout enough to act like one. I would be surprised to see an ASHP that had a COP of 3 at such low outdoor temperatures.

Last edited by jeff5may; 09-24-16 at 09:08 PM..
jeff5may is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-16, 05:48 PM   #9
AC_Hacker
Supreme EcoRenovator
 
AC_Hacker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,004
Thanks: 303
Thanked 723 Times in 534 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by AC_Hacker:
COP is always higher for heating than it is for cooling because of the contribution of the compressor heat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MN Renovator View Post
Depends on the temperature outside when heating. Try this statement in a Minnesota climate where we've had January averages of 20f, not to mention the colder overnight temperatures. We usually get 10 below zero fahrenheit overnight lows temperatures about 5 times a year here and normally get the lowest temp under -20f once a year. Getting 40 degrees as a high is a lucky January occurrence. The AHRI ratings of 17f are a joke in my climate, we need sub-zero data. ..especially since some of the most efficient mini-split brands can now handle these temperatures without being in constant defrost with an above average envelope and proper capacity sizing.
Please tell you are joking.

-AC
__________________
I'm not an HVAC technician. In fact, I'm barely even a hacker...
AC_Hacker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-16, 08:47 PM   #10
MN Renovator
Less usage=Cheaper bills
 
MN Renovator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 939
Thanks: 41
Thanked 116 Times in 90 Posts
Default

"Please tell you are joking.
-AC"

Which part? COPs run into the sub 2 COP range when things are actually cold. Not to mention defrost cycle losses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pinballlooking View Post
Where you are the crown series is the only one you would even consider.
I would only look at their Terra and Crown series.
The crown series has a two stage inverter compressor.
I'm not sure how well the Gree units handle deep winter. I see specs provided by a manufacturer but it's hard to compare that when it's not a third party testing multiple units with the same method. I'm looking at the Fujitsu and Mitsubishi units.

MN Renovator is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Ad Management by RedTyger
Inactive Reminders By Icora Web Design