Heat pump thoughts

[Nonhog]

Thanks for the reply's! Not sure where summer went? I've got almost enough wood for winter. Still thinking. mejunkhound I like the 2 mini splits idea.
One concern I have is the forced propane furnace ducts. If I have an efficient mini split system how would I seal the ducts from the forced system? Of course it would need to be a simple better than the basic grill set up so I dont lose heat in the duct work?

[Nonhog]

Originally Posted by jeff5may

Nonhog,

How much of the work are you planning on doing yourself? Are you looking for a quick turnkey solution, or are you willing to invest some sweat equity to save a considerable amount of cash?

It sounds as if you want to keep your existing ductwork and at least some of your existing equipment. Although it may be less expensive up front to just throw something in, you really want to get what you already have evaluated by an expert or at least do a decent energy audit/heat load analysis of your home before improving upon it. Most utility companies will do this sort of thing for next to nothing to point you in the right direction. You may find that your home leaks air or heat somewhere badly, and fixing the energy drain may change the economics of what you already have for the better.

Had an audit done and was pretty turned off by the hard sell that began as soon as the worker wrapped up his inspection. I was there watching and told the guy several times I am a DIY'r (so yes jeff5may, I will do as much as possible) I did feel the air coming out the outlets and door frames, I saw infrared images of the boxes around my canned lights. That sort of thing.

I could do all but the evac/charge freon work.

[AC_Hacker]

Originally Posted by Nonhog

I could do all but the evac/charge freon work.

You can do that too.

-AC

[jeff5may]

I know what you mean, Nonhog. Sometimes an energy audit is like going to a car dealership for a "free" test drive. However, lots of info can be gleaned from these encounters concerning the test results. Sometimes it's better to prolong the agony of a salesman and his pitch to get clear answers.

If the auditor/sales associate has doubts you'll buy anything, they might not let you know much about your audit. They would rather opt for a hasty exit, and "on to the next one", so they say, in hopes of a sale and a paycheck. Heck, the auditor might not have even been paid to do the audit! The HVAC industry has such a high cost structure and such an aura of mystery and complexity that a couple of sales a week will make up for a dozen or so energy audits done for free!

So what did the auditor suggest in his pitch? Did you basically get a fourth estimate for a heating system, or did he suggest methods to reduce your heat loss? I'm assuming they did a blower door test and took some thermal imaging from your comments. Did you get any concrete info from the audit?

[Nonhog]

Originally Posted by jeff5may

So what did the auditor suggest in his pitch? Did you basically get a fourth estimate for a heating system, or did he suggest methods to reduce your heat loss? I'm assuming they did a blower door test and took some thermal imaging from your comments. Did you get any concrete info from the audit?

This guy really went all out crawling in the attic. And that's tough in my house.
This guy was not little had to be a real pain to look at what was up there.
I've been all through my attic. I'm 6' tall but not too wide. LOL
I never let the sales pitch start. He kept saying we could get together like I had all the time in the world. Anyway I e-mailed the company today and asked to be sent the report. I did tell them how good the guy was but it would not result in any sales as I am a DIY'r. Nothing concrete yet.
Have my doubts. I'll let you know what if anything comes of it.
I did spent 95$ so I expect my results.

[stevehull]

Originally Posted by Nonhog

This guy really went all out crawling in the attic. And that's tough in my house. This guy was not little had to be a real pain to look at what was up there.

Before you all paint HVAC contractors with the same black brush (all rip off artists), be aware that there are many contractors that are really trying to do a good job.

I get brought in, rather commonly, to look at "difficult" solutions. The HVAC company hires me to look at their examination/test data. This can include a blower door test, IR scan, physical insulation assessment, examination of all utility bills that have HVAC influence, HVAC size/age/capacity/efficiency as well as owner lifestyle.

Sorry, but this is not cheap! Yes, many "can" do this themselves and many on this site can do it. But how does the retired couple, one in a wheelchair (spinal injury from Vietnam) and the other completely ignorant of basic physics do this?

I enjoy working with ideas and finding a good engineering solution to a problem. On my own home, I can afford the luxury of spending "free" time, but I can't give it away to anyone when I am on the clock.

It is good to recall the saying "that which is given away lightly is little regarded". There are consults that I do commonly where people are astounded at how leaky their home is, are using electric resistance heat and just assume that the heating bills have to be that way. They view my consult as frankly a tremendous value! That said, I have a sliding scale and at times I do "give away" time (such as above couple).

There is a HUGE value to pointing out that simply sealing up a home can reduce HVAC system capacity by sometimes 50%. But finding those leaks often requires more than a candle/wet finger and a windy day . . . .

Hope you all understand that the "free" energy consult is just like the "free lunch".


Steve

[AC_Hacker]

Originally Posted by stevehull

..."that which is given away lightly is little regarded"...

I believe that the last time you said this, I corrected your statement to be, "That which is given away is difficult to monetize".

It takes energy to be a DIY guy or DIY gal, not only to do the actual work, but even before that, to overcome the notion of helplessness in the face of overwhelming technology, and industry and trade protectionism.

I myself, have paid my own good money to infiltrate professional industry and trade seminars, where I learned first hand how they manipulate and hold back information to enhance their profits at the expense of their customers who they pretend to serve. I have seen this in GSHP re-certification seminars and also Solar re-certification seminars. I learned as much as I could there and have shared it out to the fullest extent possible, in the pages of EcoRenovator.

The industry and trade groups will flourish just fine without the DIY world paying any homage to them at all.

I would even go so far as to say that it is very healthy for any DIY guy or DIY gal to begin each project with a quiet moment of reflective time in which they focus their minds on their feelings of contempt for over-priced, under-skilled, irresponsible, predatory "professionals".

Then learn all you can, and have at it!

Sincerely,

-AC_Hacker

[Nonhog]

Originally Posted by stevehull

Before you all paint HVAC contractors with the same black brush (all rip off artists), be aware that there are many contractors that are really trying to do a good job.


Hope you all understand that the "free" energy consult is just like the "free lunch".


Steve

Not really sure how to take your post, since you quoted me. What you quoted was me taking my hat off to the guy for doing a good job. Way above and beyond the $95.00 (not free) charge. However they quoted the price and we took them up on it. I owe them nothing, they owe me my results. I was upfront before, during and after. They really were not.
I didn't think there were strings attached. I figured $95.00 and an hour and they would be gone. I was wrong, the guy spent way more than an hour because he was good. This company might be just the ticket for the average guy? I just wish they were upfront about the hard sale. Heck time share people are.

[stevehull]

Nonhog,

Your quote was meant to emphasize just how much this guy did for the $95. Did not mean to confuse.

We can help you sort out what you need. Even if you condition the atrium, a 24,000 BTU unit (2 ton) would be my choice. Leave the propane unit in for now and explore this winter (while you burn your wood) the options that are on this forum.

Steve


Steve

[Nonhog]

Originally Posted by stevehull

Nonhog,

Your quote was meant to emphasize just how much this guy did for the $95. Did not mean to confuse.

We can help you sort out what you need. Even if you condition the atrium, a 24,000 BTU unit (2 ton) would be my choice. Leave the propane unit in for now and explore this winter (while you burn your wood) the options that are on this forum.

Steve


Steve

Got it. (my bad, I see that now) Thanks!