EcoRenovator  

Go Back   EcoRenovator > Improvements > Geothermal & Heat Pumps
Advanced Search
 


Blog 60+ Home Energy Saving Tips Recent Posts Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-12-12, 12:28 PM   #1311
AC_Hacker
Supreme EcoRenovator
 
AC_Hacker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,004
Thanks: 303
Thanked 723 Times in 534 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MN Renovator View Post
...you really need to weigh in the charge because of the variable nature...
This may be all well & good, but if you start hacking your system, changing refrigerant, changing compressors, changing HXs, even changing appreciably the length or diameter of your lines that run from your compressor to the HXs, then the specified weight of the charge is no longer relevant.

At that point, going by pressure that applies to the refrigerant in question as I have done, or testing for performance as randen has done, or testing for super-heat and sub-cool as Vlad and GregC have done, can lead you out of the woods.

I hope that Vlad and GregC are reading this post and can weigh in on this matter, as it is important and they have a respectable amount of expertise on this very issue.

Best,

-AC_Hacker

__________________
I'm not an HVAC technician. In fact, I'm barely even a hacker...
AC_Hacker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-12, 09:07 PM   #1312
Sirius
Lurking Renovator
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Southern Califormia
Posts: 20
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default

Hi everybody,

I discovered this great thread yesterday. I discovered it because of an email I received. I belong to a mailing list for Green DIYers. It's basically a marketing list, but I digress. The email I got took me to a link for a "DIY geothermal heat pump" that you could build for under $1000.00. It had some good pictures in the video and promised to show you how to convert an old window A/C unit and even make your own welder from an old Teflon frying pan and an old sandwich maker. Sound familiar?

I figured I could find some useful and free information about this stuff if I did a little research, instead of giving this guy $49.97.

Surprisingly, I was right. I found your thread. Complete with the exact same pictures that this information salesman is using in his package.

AC Hacker, if you are the guy selling this info, more power to you. I'm only up to page 12 of the thread and I can see how much effort you've put into this. You deserve to get something back. If you're not the info salesman, then someone is stealing your images and your hard work and making a profit off of them.

I hate to be a rat, but I can not stand a thief who profits from somebody else's hard work and sweat.

If you would like the link from the email I got, drop me a line through here and I'll talk to you off forum.

Thanks for all your hard work.
Sirius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-12, 01:17 AM   #1313
AC_Hacker
Supreme EcoRenovator
 
AC_Hacker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,004
Thanks: 303
Thanked 723 Times in 534 Posts
Default Trying to Set the Beast Free...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius View Post
... a link for a "DIY geothermal heat pump" that you could build for under $1000.00. It had some good pictures in the video and promised to show you how to convert an old window A/C unit and even make your own welder from an old Teflon frying pan and an old sandwich maker... AC Hacker, if you are the guy selling this info, more power to you. I'm only up to page 12 of the thread and I can see how much effort you've put into this. You deserve to get something back. If you're not the info salesman, then someone is stealing your images and your hard work and making a profit off of them...
Sirius,

First off, I am not the guy selling any information... this is the first time I have heard of it.

Second, The entire Homemade Heat Pump Manifesto is information that I have freely released in the hope of making a technology more available to anyone and everyone. The entire 'Manifesto' is freely available (it is in the public domain) to anyone to use for any purpose, including selling it. However, because it is in the public domain, no one, not me, not you, not the guy who is selling the information for $49.97 has an exclusive right to the information... In fact, you can sell the information for $29.97 if you want.

I have personally rejected the idea of trying to monetize the 'Manifesto' in any way, and there have been hundreds of people who have urged me to do so... but as I indicated on page 1, it is to attempt to remedy the dilemma that people of lesser means can't afford to buy a cheaper way to heat their homes, that I did the work that I did.

My best hope is that some innovative souls would take the ideas and experiences I have tried to present clearly and improve on them, and ultimately, we will all benefit from such efforts. Vlad and randen and Brad_C and many others, too many to count, have certainly contributed to the fund of available information.

Thank you for bringing this information about someone selling parts of the 'Manifesto' to my attention. But it is actually part of a greater plan. You see, I am trying to set the beast free.

And finally, yes it has been a lot of work... it still is, but it is work that I have very much enjoyed. My reward is other people's success.

By the way, as of this writing, the 'Manifesto' has gotten 323,921 hits... that's pretty close to 1/3 of a million!

Yes, I think the beast has caught a whiff of the sweet smell of freedom.

Best,

-AC_Hacker
__________________
I'm not an HVAC technician. In fact, I'm barely even a hacker...

Last edited by AC_Hacker; 09-13-12 at 09:31 AM..
AC_Hacker is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to AC_Hacker For This Useful Post:
charlesfl (09-15-12)
Old 09-13-12, 06:16 AM   #1314
MN Renovator
Less usage=Cheaper bills
 
MN Renovator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 939
Thanks: 41
Thanked 116 Times in 90 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AC_Hacker View Post
This may be all well & good, but if you start hacking your system, changing refrigerant, changing compressors, changing HXs, even changing appreciably the length or diameter of your lines that run from your compressor to the HXs, then the specified weight of the charge is no longer relevant.

At that point, going by pressure that applies to the refrigerant in question as I have done, or testing for performance as randen has done, or testing for super-heat and sub-cool as Vlad and GregC have done, can lead you out of the woods.

I hope that Vlad and GregC are reading this post and can weigh in on this matter, as it is important and they have a respectable amount of expertise on this very issue.

Best,

-AC_Hacker
I was responding about an inquiry mini-splits, I assumed they means inverter mini-split. Not sure how well that would work changing refrigerants in those which would then require that you do a bunch of a guess and check and hope efficiency is similar to what you had before and that you won't freeze up a coil or slug the compressor. Changing an inverter compressor might be a little tough but the charge would still be a similar weighed in amount. If changing the HX you could adjust the weighed in charge by the change in tubing volume, if changing the length or diameter of the lines you can adjust the weight based on the manufacturers numbers on how to adjust charge as those numbers would be relevant in that case and I'm not sure of any manufacturers that don't provide the adjustment for changing the refrigerant line length, diameter adjustment could be calculated based on numbers from other manufacturers for diameter adjustment for the same refrigerant. So you can still weigh in the charge in almost all cases with a mini-split. Granted you aren't required to weight it in and can't if changing refrigerants but if you can weigh it in, you'll likely be better off, especially with an inverter unit.
MN Renovator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-12, 09:29 AM   #1315
AC_Hacker
Supreme EcoRenovator
 
AC_Hacker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,004
Thanks: 303
Thanked 723 Times in 534 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MN Renovator View Post
I was responding about an inquiry mini-splits...
The name of this thread really says it all, Homemade Heat Pump Manifesto.

You could say that this is a thread that is dedicated to hacking air conditioners into heat pumps. In case you didn't notice, my blog name, "AC_Hacker" embodies that notion.

This is the only place on the web that I know of that offers any information to people who wish to experiment with, change, improve or re-purpose vapor compression machines.

The response I gave was based on the work I have successfully done, or on work that was successfully done by other people.

Weighing refrigerant is great if you are trying to maintain previously installed equipment to it's original standard of performance... but if that is all you are trying to do, the request and the standard answer really should be put into a different thread.

We are experimenters here.

Best,

-AC_Hacker
__________________
I'm not an HVAC technician. In fact, I'm barely even a hacker...
AC_Hacker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-12, 06:16 PM   #1316
MN Renovator
Less usage=Cheaper bills
 
MN Renovator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 939
Thanks: 41
Thanked 116 Times in 90 Posts
Default

Chill out, it was a response to a question in post 1308, not to the whole thread. Things do deviate slightly on forums and not every post is perfectly dedicated to the title of the thread or its full intent, which is bound to happen on a thread where this is the 1315th post.
MN Renovator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-12, 10:21 AM   #1317
AC_Hacker
Supreme EcoRenovator
 
AC_Hacker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,004
Thanks: 303
Thanked 723 Times in 534 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MN Renovator View Post
Chill out, it was a response to a question in post 1308, not to the whole thread. Things do deviate slightly on forums and not every post is perfectly dedicated to the title of the thread or its full intent, which is bound to happen on a thread where this is the 1315th post.
Great!

...now Thepprof has four ways to deal with his equipment:
  • Pressure
  • Performance
  • Super Heat / Sub Cool
  • Weight

It is important for an EcoRenovator to have multiple approaches to solving a problem at his disposal, rather than to be trapped into thinking that there is only one solution.

Best,

-AC_Hacker
__________________
I'm not an HVAC technician. In fact, I'm barely even a hacker...
AC_Hacker is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to AC_Hacker For This Useful Post:
castlusion (03-02-13)
Old 09-18-12, 10:20 AM   #1318
RB855
Helper EcoRenovator
 
RB855's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Jacksonville, fl
Posts: 48
Thanks: 3
Thanked 14 Times in 10 Posts
Default

Been a while since I last checked in about my waterheater but... Finally got my taco pump rebuilt and plumbed in to the unit and is in its final stages of testing. Thanking my luck I also took the time to install the pressure safteys yesterday, as the water temp sensor fell out resulting in a water temperature excursion to about 175*F, at which point the high pressure tripped out around 425psi. Its interesting that the compressor discharge didn't trip on temperature. Never leave your unfinished project tests unattended! Seems very promising so far, At this point I almost want to use it as a ground source because it works so well as a a/c lol...
As a review Im using a r-410a 12,000btu reversible window unit, on R-134a with twinned alfa laval bphe in place of the original indoor coil using a chinese heatpump waterheater thermostat with a taco 006 series circ pump. Running pressures 150-225psi / 60-70psi. Final efficiency ratings will be determined when everything is insulated as Im losing a lot of heat everywhere right now.

Last edited by RB855; 09-18-12 at 12:04 PM..
RB855 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-12, 12:12 AM   #1319
Free heat
Lurking Renovator
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: metro Portland, OR
Posts: 15
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Anyone have some guidance or directions on bypassing the outdoor air coils on an ac or hp into a water to refrigerant heat exchanger of my own design?

I've read through many pages of this thread and haven't seen any on this type of question. I'm wondering about limits on the length of tubing the compressor can run and still function properly, the sizing of the copper pipes to replace the air coils, and if there is any problem of oil separation in the refrigerant with long lines, or with low points in the piping.

Also, ideally, after demonstration of function on a small separate unit, I'd really like to modify the hp already installed in my home so that it could either use the outdoor air coils, or my water to refrigerant loop. The thought was to put in some manual valves, maybe one in each loop, so that the refrigerant would be forced into the desired loop. I didn't know if one valve in each line was enough, or if it really requires two on each line. If two are needed, is there any problem with balancing the refrigerant in each loop so the system operates correctly each time a switch is made.

Thanks
Free heat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-12, 12:18 AM   #1320
Free heat
Lurking Renovator
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: metro Portland, OR
Posts: 15
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Additonal info

I should add, I'm not using any water pumps and am not looking for an off the shelf heat exchanger. The intention here is to run the refrigerant through some water reservoirs directly.

Free heat is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Tags
air conditioner, diy, gshp, heat pump, homemade

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Ad Management by RedTyger
Inactive Reminders By Icora Web Design