DIY Geothermal install

pinballlooking · 11-15-18, 11:02 AM

I am considering putting in Geothermal. I was going to wait but some of the tax credits are expiring.

I have a 4 ton AC now with natural gas heat we really don’t use these we use theses much we use our mini splits.
I bought a tractor with a backhoe. https://ecorenovator.org/forum/lawn-...-1710-tbl.html I want to dig my own loop field. I know it will take longer but I am ok with that we still have Mini splits so it does not have to be a fast install.

I wanted to keep my natural gas heat as backup heat but I talked to a couple installers here and they say don’t do it. They said it will kill efficiency.

I have been thinking about the system and would like some advice.
Going with a 4 ton two stage system.

1.) Pressurized or non-Pressurized system? Which one is better? I have read non-Pressurized is simpler to purge and fill?

2.) Slinkey loops or no slinky loop? I have been thinking about doing slinky to not dig up as much pasture but I am not sure.
I could do it just with a 10” trench since I have a backhoe.

3.) What system to get? I have been thinking of maybe getting a climate master system water to air it will be in my crawl space. Are there better brands?

4.) Loop field I am seeing 600’ each loop ¾” pipe with 4 loops for a 4 ton system.

5.) I have never done duct work I might contract that part out.

Looking for some feedback I have been reading but not many people dig their own system for every thing i read do it this way I also read do do it this way.

stevehull · 11-16-18, 05:43 AM

Stay way from Climatemaster - far prefer Waterfurnace.

Steve

randen · 11-16-18, 09:01 AM

I have two climatemasters and they have been extremely reliable

How much of a house are you trying to heat??
We’re heating 3600 sq ft with 3.5 ton 90% of the time. Our Canadian climate may be a little more harsh

Randen

You know you can build one!!!

pinballlooking · 11-16-18, 10:52 AM

My house is 2100 sq ft.
I was thinking about 3.5 ton the only reason I said 4 ton was that we had a 4 ton AC unit originally installed.

If I go with a two stage system it should run on the first stage most of the time.

I am not building one. Just putting one in will be plenty of work. The tax break is a big thing for me.

randen · 11-16-18, 12:46 PM

Copy that on building one. I know that buying one in the states can be quite reasonable. A ground source is a different animal quite efficient. For 2100 sq ft in SC for ground source 2.5 would do quite well. But remember they are designed to run. Short cycling just runs up your electric bill

I would think that the 2 stage are really good for larger units 6 tons plus

Randen

pinballlooking · 11-16-18, 01:18 PM

Thanks for the input I will look into this some more. One stage units are cheaper and a smaller unit requires less digging.

I think I will get a local company quote me an install. DIY must save money to make it worth it.

When I dig, I will scrape off top soil set it aside the put it back on top when done.
The contractors don’t do this we have very little top soil here and we have red clay.
You can’t grow grass very well in red clay.

If you add up my mini splits i have installed now it comes to 3.75 Ton

pinballlooking · 11-16-18, 02:05 PM

Does anyone sell Waterfurnace direct to customers?

I have someone coming out Monday to give me a quote.
They install Waterfurnace I will see what they have to say.

pinballlooking · 11-19-18, 10:05 AM

The Geothermal quote was today.
$37,095 for a series 7 water furnace
$32,324 for a series 5 water furnace

This includes no hot water.
The load calc came to 3.62 ton they would install a 4 ton unit with no backup heat strips.
(I have 3.75 ton mini splits now)
Horizontal loop 6’ deep they do not do slinky they do 3’ trench with 2 loops one on left one on right return ½ up.

There is no way I will have it installed at this cost. It is like they calc the tax savings and add that much to the estimate.

That is about the same way the solar installed cost est. was done.

A local guy that sells used equipment will take my old equipment and install the Geo unit for 600-700 that does not sound bad but I really have no idea what it would cost.
I do all the pluming and electrical...
They just swap units.

pinballlooking · 11-19-18, 08:25 PM

I am looking at a couple climate master systems from Ingrams water & air
Tranquility 30 and the Tranquility 22 the 30 is $1899.39 more money.

Not sure it is worth it they are both 2 stage 4 ton and both use the IGate thermostat that gives you lots of info.

I am thinking about a non-pressurized system my system is in the crawl space and I don’t want to make a purge cart.

I am thinking about getting a Desuperheater and disable it at first the later getting a holding tank that will feed my tankless hot water heater.

It will be about 50’ away from the unit hopefully that is not too far.
Still need to decide to do Slinky and just using my 10” back hoe and doing long runs.

The Tranquility 22 with everything to do the install is $8,982
after Tax credit $4,041.9
TEH Specifications TZ048
https://cdn.iwae.com/media/manuals/c...ifications.pdf

The Tranquility 30 with everything to do the install is 11696.08
after Tax credit $5263.24
TEH Specifications TZ048
https://cdn.iwae.com/media/manuals/c...ifications.pdf

Right now the tax credit is 30% fed and 25% state so 55%.

pinballlooking · 11-20-18, 11:03 AM

I am going to look for some software or tool to do a manual J. I am with randen here. My mini splits can keep up on very hot days. 3.75 ton
We are not going to get rid on the mini splits. So maybe scale down to a 3 ton two stage system. Dig the loops with my 10” bucket.

That would take my loops to 3 600’ about 1800’ of trench. I am not sure how long that would take to dig.
Time is on my side since I have the mini splits.

11-15-18, 11:02 AM	#1
pinballlooking Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: SC Posts: 2,923 Thanks: 172 Thanked 564 Times in 463 Posts	DIY Geothermal install I am considering putting in Geothermal. I was going to wait but some of the tax credits are expiring. I have a 4 ton AC now with natural gas heat we really don’t use these we use theses much we use our mini splits. I bought a tractor with a backhoe. https://ecorenovator.org/forum/lawn-...-1710-tbl.html I want to dig my own loop field. I know it will take longer but I am ok with that we still have Mini splits so it does not have to be a fast install. I wanted to keep my natural gas heat as backup heat but I talked to a couple installers here and they say don’t do it. They said it will kill efficiency. I have been thinking about the system and would like some advice. Going with a 4 ton two stage system. 1.) Pressurized or non-Pressurized system? Which one is better? I have read non-Pressurized is simpler to purge and fill? 2.) Slinkey loops or no slinky loop? I have been thinking about doing slinky to not dig up as much pasture but I am not sure. I could do it just with a 10” trench since I have a backhoe. 3.) What system to get? I have been thinking of maybe getting a climate master system water to air it will be in my crawl space. Are there better brands? 4.) Loop field I am seeing 600’ each loop ¾” pipe with 4 loops for a 4 ton system. 5.) I have never done duct work I might contract that part out. Looking for some feedback I have been reading but not many people dig their own system for every thing i read do it this way I also read do do it this way. __________________ Current project Aquaponics system , Passive Solar Greenhouse build To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Solar Install 12.5 Kwh- To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Mini Split installs - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. EV Chevy Volt - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Last edited by pinballlooking; 11-15-18 at 12:00 PM..

11-16-18, 05:43 AM	#2
stevehull Steve Hull Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: hilly, tree covered Arcadia, OK USA Posts: 826 Thanks: 241 Thanked 165 Times in 123 Posts	Stay way from Climatemaster - far prefer Waterfurnace. Steve __________________ consulting on geothermal heating/cooling & rational energy use since 1990

11-16-18, 10:52 AM	#4
pinballlooking Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: SC Posts: 2,923 Thanks: 172 Thanked 564 Times in 463 Posts	My house is 2100 sq ft. I was thinking about 3.5 ton the only reason I said 4 ton was that we had a 4 ton AC unit originally installed. If I go with a two stage system it should run on the first stage most of the time. I am not building one. Just putting one in will be plenty of work. The tax break is a big thing for me. __________________ Current project Aquaponics system , Passive Solar Greenhouse build To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Solar Install 12.5 Kwh- To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Mini Split installs - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. EV Chevy Volt - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

11-16-18, 01:18 PM	#6
pinballlooking Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: SC Posts: 2,923 Thanks: 172 Thanked 564 Times in 463 Posts	Thanks for the input I will look into this some more. One stage units are cheaper and a smaller unit requires less digging. I think I will get a local company quote me an install. DIY must save money to make it worth it. When I dig, I will scrape off top soil set it aside the put it back on top when done. The contractors don’t do this we have very little top soil here and we have red clay. You can’t grow grass very well in red clay. If you add up my mini splits i have installed now it comes to 3.75 Ton __________________ Current project Aquaponics system , Passive Solar Greenhouse build To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Solar Install 12.5 Kwh- To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Mini Split installs - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. EV Chevy Volt - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Last edited by pinballlooking; 11-16-18 at 03:36 PM..

11-16-18, 02:05 PM	#7
pinballlooking Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: SC Posts: 2,923 Thanks: 172 Thanked 564 Times in 463 Posts	Does anyone sell Waterfurnace direct to customers? I have someone coming out Monday to give me a quote. They install Waterfurnace I will see what they have to say. __________________ Current project Aquaponics system , Passive Solar Greenhouse build To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Solar Install 12.5 Kwh- To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Mini Split installs - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. EV Chevy Volt - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

11-16-18, 09:01 AM	#3
randen Uber EcoRenovator Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Strathroy Ontario Canada Posts: 657 Thanks: 9 Thanked 191 Times in 129 Posts	I have two climatemasters and they have been extremely reliable How much of a house are you trying to heat?? We’re heating 3600 sq ft with 3.5 ton 90% of the time. Our Canadian climate may be a little more harsh Randen You know you can build one!!!

11-16-18, 12:46 PM	#5
randen Uber EcoRenovator Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Strathroy Ontario Canada Posts: 657 Thanks: 9 Thanked 191 Times in 129 Posts	Copy that on building one. I know that buying one in the states can be quite reasonable. A ground source is a different animal quite efficient. For 2100 sq ft in SC for ground source 2.5 would do quite well. But remember they are designed to run. Short cycling just runs up your electric bill I would think that the 2 stage are really good for larger units 6 tons plus Randen

11-19-18, 10:05 AM	#8
pinballlooking Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: SC Posts: 2,923 Thanks: 172 Thanked 564 Times in 463 Posts	The Geothermal quote was today. $37,095 for a series 7 water furnace $32,324 for a series 5 water furnace This includes no hot water. The load calc came to 3.62 ton they would install a 4 ton unit with no backup heat strips. (I have 3.75 ton mini splits now) Horizontal loop 6’ deep they do not do slinky they do 3’ trench with 2 loops one on left one on right return ½ up. There is no way I will have it installed at this cost. It is like they calc the tax savings and add that much to the estimate. That is about the same way the solar installed cost est. was done. A local guy that sells used equipment will take my old equipment and install the Geo unit for 600-700 that does not sound bad but I really have no idea what it would cost. I do all the pluming and electrical... They just swap units. __________________ Current project Aquaponics system , Passive Solar Greenhouse build To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Solar Install 12.5 Kwh- To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Mini Split installs - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. EV Chevy Volt - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Last edited by pinballlooking; 01-06-21 at 09:10 PM..

11-19-18, 08:25 PM	#9
pinballlooking Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: SC Posts: 2,923 Thanks: 172 Thanked 564 Times in 463 Posts	I am looking at a couple climate master systems from Ingrams water & air Tranquility 30 and the Tranquility 22 the 30 is $1899.39 more money. Not sure it is worth it they are both 2 stage 4 ton and both use the IGate thermostat that gives you lots of info. I am thinking about a non-pressurized system my system is in the crawl space and I don’t want to make a purge cart. I am thinking about getting a Desuperheater and disable it at first the later getting a holding tank that will feed my tankless hot water heater. It will be about 50’ away from the unit hopefully that is not too far. Still need to decide to do Slinky and just using my 10” back hoe and doing long runs. The Tranquility 22 with everything to do the install is $8,982 after Tax credit $4,041.9 TEH Specifications TZ048 https://cdn.iwae.com/media/manuals/c...ifications.pdf The Tranquility 30 with everything to do the install is 11696.08 after Tax credit $5263.24 TEH Specifications TZ048 https://cdn.iwae.com/media/manuals/c...ifications.pdf Right now the tax credit is 30% fed and 25% state so 55%. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Current project Aquaponics system , Passive Solar Greenhouse build To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Solar Install 12.5 Kwh- To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Mini Split installs - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. EV Chevy Volt - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

11-20-18, 11:03 AM	#10
pinballlooking Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: SC Posts: 2,923 Thanks: 172 Thanked 564 Times in 463 Posts	I am going to look for some software or tool to do a manual J. I am with randen here. My mini splits can keep up on very hot days. 3.75 ton We are not going to get rid on the mini splits. So maybe scale down to a 3 ton two stage system. Dig the loops with my 10” bucket. That would take my loops to 3 600’ about 1800’ of trench. I am not sure how long that would take to dig. Time is on my side since I have the mini splits. __________________ Current project Aquaponics system , Passive Solar Greenhouse build To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Solar Install 12.5 Kwh- To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Mini Split installs - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. EV Chevy Volt - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.