wind powered hydraulics or air

sunspot · 12-12-12, 10:26 AM

I'm looking for examples of windmills (hawt or vawt) coupled to hydraulic pumps. If anyone has stumbled on something like this I'd appreciate a link. A direct driven air compressor pump would also be of interest.

Thanks,

Daox · 12-12-12, 10:58 AM

I've never seen anything specific but its an interesting idea!

Unfortuantely compressing air is a very inefficient process. I would avoid it.

Hydraulics would be much more efficient. The unfortunate problem with hydraulics is lack of energy density. You need a large accumulator to store reasonable amounts of energy.

What were you thinking of using the stored hydraulic power to do?

sunspot · 12-12-12, 11:42 AM

> What were you thinking of using the stored hydraulic power to do?

I'd like to experiment with mechanical heaters - specifically cavitation heaters and eddy current heaters - to heat water directly. I have a partially completed thermal storage tank of close to 500 gallons capacity to store the mechanically heated water. Hydraulics (or compressed air to a lesser degree) would give me the ability to vary rpm and torque which would be installed indoors adjacent the storage tank and remote from the windmill.

randen · 12-12-12, 07:34 PM

Both have been done to death. This has been such a problem with wind turbines some tinkerer's investing so much time and effort without studying the true dynamics of wind/power production. Then to top it off trying to sell their new found energy producing machine with dismal performance to some poor unsuspecting soul.

I don't mean to be cruel.

Hydraulic's two huge things. The close fitting components required in the pump itself cause so much friction the wind turbine maynot even start to turn unless in hurricane type weather. Not to mention the other end, the internal drag of a hydraulic motor. TOO MANY LOSSES.

Temperatures on the oil or hydraulic fluids. Really cool weather will make the fluid viscus preventing the turbine from turning. Even grease for the bearings needs to be special to reduce drag in cold weather. Not to mention the lubrication in those turbines with gear-boxes.

You had mentioned water. What about freezing.

VAWT do some homework on this one, One blade going down wind with the other blade coming up wind only with twice the apparent wind speed. The resultant power is marginal just enough to make it rotate no real world power.

The HAWT is the machine that will produce horsepower but its an engineers definition of compromize. The turbines blades need to operate well in a specific wind speed envelop. Outside this envelope the blades need to be protected from overspeed. In the case of an average wind speed for the location of the turbine the blades must exceed the amount of torque imposed by the alternator (or whatever your driving). If there is too much torque the blades will just stall and not produce any useable power.

What about the power you produce?? AC single phase,three phase,DC ?? What about the voltage window 12-48volt 100-300volt. Batteries or grid tie?? Did you know you just cannot disconnect the power. The windings must stay loaded. What will you do If your batteries are fully charged and its going to blow hard for the next week. You don't want to over-charge that expensive battery bank.

The poor under-appreciated tower. This peice of steel 40ft. minimum high. standing straight up must counteract the torque and gyroscopic gymnastics of a whirling blade ducking back and forth in strong gusts of wind year upon year. It maybe fun the first time you raise the turbine but what about 6 mnts to a year after, the bearings could use a shot of grease. The wood blades you carved could use some more oil and or the fiberglass blades need the bolts re-tightened or the buggs cleaned off.

There is so much to these systems and anything less than a well thoughout system would be heart-breaking. But there are those who have done it with great success. Wind turbine producing electrical energy, heating water with elements. Although maybe not the best utilization of the energy but greater in self regulating.

Check-out otherpower.com guys.

Again I appologize, but there is so much more to this than it would seem than just hoisting a turbine in the wind.

Randen

NeilTheCop · 02-01-13, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunspot

A direct driven air compressor pump would also be of interest.

Thanks,

Do a search for pond aeration, plenty of wind powered direct drive air compressors.

mechanic · 08-20-14, 08:33 AM

Here is mine, compressor is an old York a/c compressor that had a leaky seal. I'm using to run an airlift geyser pump to get irrigation water to my yard. Unfortunately a big wind broke my PVC blades in less than 24 hrs of use...

oil pan 4 · 08-20-14, 11:18 AM

I don't know of any hydraulic wind turbines.
Air is fairly common.

ICanHas · 08-31-14, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunspot

I'm looking for examples of windmills (hawt or vawt) coupled to hydraulic pumps. If anyone has stumbled on something like this I'd appreciate a link. A direct driven air compressor pump would also be of interest.

Thanks,

What you're describing is a pneumatic machine. Industrial size compressors can get over 90% motor efficiency, but the kW power at shaft of pneumatic tools over kW work going into compressor is something like 10%.

I wouldn't unless you have a need for compressed air or you want to drive refrigeration cycle directly. you could put the condenser coil downstream like shown.

Another way would be hydrostatic drive. You drive a piston or gear pump with the windmill.

Many farm equipment uses this. The tractor engine drives the hydraulic pump and the lever is used to change the displacement of hydraulic motor or the pump.

You definitely need some sort of relief valve, because this is a close equivalent of chain drive and the momentum of the moving parts will smash through the drive-train and literally blow apart the weakest link if the load gets jammed. A big advantage is that you can slowly brake the hydraulic motor or throttle the valve, then valve off the hydraulic line to get a positive braking of the wind turbine when needed and leave all the heavy mechanical equipment at the bottom.

If you you need to overcome the static friction to start it, you could back-drive the hydraulic motor with a starter motor or something to get it going.

On the output end, do as you will with any PTO shaft. With the control lever, you have a CVT at your disposal.

A doubly fed induction machine makes a good power generation source while avoiding the use of failure prone full-conversion power electronics.

It would be a good idea to use some type of biodegradable hydraulic fluid, because if you have a spill, it reduces environmental liability.

12-12-12, 10:26 AM	#1
sunspot Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Vancouver Island, BC Posts: 147 Thanks: 30 Thanked 35 Times in 29 Posts	wind powered hydraulics or air I'm looking for examples of windmills (hawt or vawt) coupled to hydraulic pumps. If anyone has stumbled on something like this I'd appreciate a link. A direct driven air compressor pump would also be of interest. Thanks,

12-12-12, 10:58 AM	#2
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	I've never seen anything specific but its an interesting idea! Unfortuantely compressing air is a very inefficient process. I would avoid it. Hydraulics would be much more efficient. The unfortunate problem with hydraulics is lack of energy density. You need a large accumulator to store reasonable amounts of energy. What were you thinking of using the stored hydraulic power to do? __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

12-12-12, 07:34 PM	#4
randen Uber EcoRenovator Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Strathroy Ontario Canada Posts: 657 Thanks: 9 Thanked 191 Times in 129 Posts	Wind turbine for hydraulic or air pump Both have been done to death. This has been such a problem with wind turbines some tinkerer's investing so much time and effort without studying the true dynamics of wind/power production. Then to top it off trying to sell their new found energy producing machine with dismal performance to some poor unsuspecting soul. I don't mean to be cruel. Hydraulic's two huge things. The close fitting components required in the pump itself cause so much friction the wind turbine maynot even start to turn unless in hurricane type weather. Not to mention the other end, the internal drag of a hydraulic motor. TOO MANY LOSSES. Temperatures on the oil or hydraulic fluids. Really cool weather will make the fluid viscus preventing the turbine from turning. Even grease for the bearings needs to be special to reduce drag in cold weather. Not to mention the lubrication in those turbines with gear-boxes. You had mentioned water. What about freezing. VAWT do some homework on this one, One blade going down wind with the other blade coming up wind only with twice the apparent wind speed. The resultant power is marginal just enough to make it rotate no real world power. The HAWT is the machine that will produce horsepower but its an engineers definition of compromize. The turbines blades need to operate well in a specific wind speed envelop. Outside this envelope the blades need to be protected from overspeed. In the case of an average wind speed for the location of the turbine the blades must exceed the amount of torque imposed by the alternator (or whatever your driving). If there is too much torque the blades will just stall and not produce any useable power. What about the power you produce?? AC single phase,three phase,DC ?? What about the voltage window 12-48volt 100-300volt. Batteries or grid tie?? Did you know you just cannot disconnect the power. The windings must stay loaded. What will you do If your batteries are fully charged and its going to blow hard for the next week. You don't want to over-charge that expensive battery bank. The poor under-appreciated tower. This peice of steel 40ft. minimum high. standing straight up must counteract the torque and gyroscopic gymnastics of a whirling blade ducking back and forth in strong gusts of wind year upon year. It maybe fun the first time you raise the turbine but what about 6 mnts to a year after, the bearings could use a shot of grease. The wood blades you carved could use some more oil and or the fiberglass blades need the bolts re-tightened or the buggs cleaned off. There is so much to these systems and anything less than a well thoughout system would be heart-breaking. But there are those who have done it with great success. Wind turbine producing electrical energy, heating water with elements. Although maybe not the best utilization of the energy but greater in self regulating. Check-out otherpower.com guys. Again I appologize, but there is so much more to this than it would seem than just hoisting a turbine in the wind. Randen

12-12-12, 11:42 AM	#3
sunspot Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Vancouver Island, BC Posts: 147 Thanks: 30 Thanked 35 Times in 29 Posts	> What were you thinking of using the stored hydraulic power to do? I'd like to experiment with mechanical heaters - specifically cavitation heaters and eddy current heaters - to heat water directly. I have a partially completed thermal storage tank of close to 500 gallons capacity to store the mechanically heated water. Hydraulics (or compressed air to a lesser degree) would give me the ability to vary rpm and torque which would be installed indoors adjacent the storage tank and remote from the windmill.

08-20-14, 08:33 AM	#6
mechanic Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Saskatchewan, Canada Posts: 117 Thanks: 10 Thanked 16 Times in 12 Posts	Here is mine, compressor is an old York a/c compressor that had a leaky seal. I'm using to run an airlift geyser pump to get irrigation water to my yard. Unfortunately a big wind broke my PVC blades in less than 24 hrs of use...

08-20-14, 11:18 AM	#7
oil pan 4 Land owner Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: NM Posts: 1,026 Thanks: 12 Thanked 127 Times in 107 Posts	I don't know of any hydraulic wind turbines. Air is fairly common.