Preparing for Infrastructure Lapses...

[theoldwizard1]

Originally Posted by gtojohn

...
If you have a generator and a natural gas heater consider wiring the heater to use an extension cord end for power. Under normal conditions its plugged into a receptacle in your attic, emergencies its plugged into your genny.

Most electric code require a furnace to be hardwired. The Reliance TF151W is THE solution !

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[MN Renovator]

I bought a 50 foot 12 gauge extension cord with the plan to cut the end off and connect the wire nuts into the extension cord if the power ever went out in the winter and I needed the furnace to prevent the pipes from freezing. The reality is that if the house is 70 degrees and I turn the furnace off, I've got at least a day before that is a concern unless it is one of the worst 10 days of winter with clouds during those days. I have a feeling I'll never need to cut the end off this extension cord. As an alternative I could just buy a shorter extension cord or cut the end off of an unused appliance cord that has a 14 gauge or thicker wiring and wire that to the furnace.

Of course you need to know what you are doing, be sure to shut off the breakers before wiring this up and while running the generator and disconnect the line side, maintain proper grounding and know you are relying on the generator fuses, which I trust well enough on my own generator.

[theoldwizard1]

Originally Posted by MN Renovator

... I could just buy a shorter extension cord or cut the end off of an unused appliance cord that has a 14 gauge or thicker wiring and wire that to the furnace.

You can buy a 14 gauge, 3 prong "pigtail" at your favorite big box store for less than $10.

"Modern" furnaces REQUIRE a "bonded" ground. Many (most?) portable generators are NOT bonded so simply plugging your pigtail into the generator extension cord will not work. 2 ways to solve it.

1. If this is a TEMPORARY hook up, wire the ground and neutral together in the junction box (assuming you are actually using a junction box )
2. Make/buy a "bonding adapter". (1' extension cord with neutral and ground connected on one end.)

YOU MUST DISCONNECT THIS BOND WHEN CONNECTING BACK TO THE POWER COMPANY !

[MN Renovator]

This is good information and I'm familiar with this. My furnace is far from modern, it's an old natural draft furnace with an intermittent pilot and the ignition to light the pilot at the start of the cycle uses about 5 watts until its proven, the gas valve uses 5 watts on its own and the motor at its highest speed including the gas valve uses 320 watts. I'm not sure if it requires a bonded ground or not but my plan was to tie the ground and neutral together in the junction box with the neutral and line disconnected from the house service panel(but ground as it was since the generator isn't separately grounded so this would be its ground too) and connect the hot, neutral, and ground connections back to the generator.

I realize this isn't the safest way to do this, ideal would be to use a generator transfer switch but I'm thinking I'll probably only need to do this once in my lifetime because I've never lost power for more than a few hours in the winter and the longest I've ever lost power was 3 days and it happened in the summer.

[gtojohn]

Generally the extension cord pig tail counts as a disconnect switch. Here it passes code even for new construction. We are currently using the 2011 NEC. I haven't seen a furnace not function for lack of a ground or proper bonding. I could see issues though with a sensitive flame sensor. You could run a ground wire from the generator to your gas pipe. I run my generator hard wired through the breaker panel. Turn off the 200 amp main. Connect 3 phase disconnect switch, 3 rd leg switches my neutral. Turn on 40 amp breaker my generator is wired to. With all lights and fans on, a couple of appliances minus hvac, amp draw is less than 10 amps per leg.

[theoldwizard1]

Originally Posted by gtojohn

Generally the extension cord pig tail counts as a disconnect switch. Here it passes code even for new construction. We are currently using the 2011 NEC..

Interesting !

I haven't seen a furnace not function for lack of a ground or proper bonding.

It has been reported in other forums and even in owners manuals of some un-bonded generators. The quick solution is plug one of these into an open 120V outlet on the same leg as the load that requires bonded neutral-ground.

I run my generator hard wired through the breaker panel. Turn off the 200 amp main. Connect 3 phase disconnect switch, 3 rd leg switches my neutral. Turn on 40 amp breaker my generator is wired to. With all lights and fans on, a couple of appliances minus hvac, amp draw is less than 10 amps per leg.

It sounds like there is no mechanical interlock between the 3 phase disconnect and the 40A generator feed breaker. This is NOT code compliant and could possibly cause an injury to someone working on the power lines outside of your house if your procedure is not executed properly.

Are neural and ground bonded at your generator and are you using a 4 wire connection from the generator to the main panel ?

[gtojohn]

It is not compliant. Again 200 amp main is off. I am the only person with the knowledge to start and engage the generator, and location of generator keys. I do possess a breaker lock out and locks for my panels. This is a common practice to use a portable generator on house. However, even though this is what I have done, for legal purposes I would not recommend anyone to ever do it this way, because if you are careless or don't understand what you are doing you may kill yourself or someone else.

[jeff5may]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

I have a 7kw I rebuilt it to hold 18 gallons of fuel and put it on an off road cart that can go over rough ground, handle the additional weight of the fuel and be cargo strapped to a trailer under high tension. Its more intended to provide power for remote job site.
It will run the plasma cutter (with a gasoline powered air compressor), mig welder, stick welder at partial power or an air compressor and other tools.
Then I found an L14-30 cord at the scrap yard. I lopped off the female end and installed it into my breaker panel on a 30 amp breaker. To disconnect from the power grid I pull my meter and connect and crank the generator then flip the breaker on.

This sounds like you are very near the Mexican border. Over there, these practices are legal, and therefore very mainstream. Many of the rigs I have seen south of the border remind me of the Mad Max movies. Thank God I live in the USA!

While I commend your skills at improvisation, all these contraptions seem rather "commercial contractor" or "cowboy maverick" in nature. Just because you have the skill and motivation doesn't give you the right to ignore standard methods and codes. They might work in a pinch for a minute, but for the purpose of a redundant backup system they just don't fit.

For a temporary rig, that might not ever get used for long, I can see why you all are reluctant to spend any substantial amount of money on a solution. At the same time, most (if not all) of us are paying small chunks of money every day in insurance bills. In this light, why not just rig up a suicide cord. If it burns the place down, just get rid of the suicide cord before the authorities have a chance to investigate. Then all that insurance money will finally be put to good use. Just remember to plug the electric dryer back into the outlet you unplugged it from to make room for the suicide cord.

If that scenario doesn't work for you, just spend the money on an approved solution.

[oil pan 4]

I see no need to waste hundreds of dollars putting in disconnect switch I might use once when I can just pull the power meter.

Originally Posted by jeff5may

For a temporary rig, that might not ever get used for long, I can see why you all are reluctant to spend any substantial amount of money on a solution. At the same time, most (if not all) of us are paying small chunks of money every day in insurance bills. In this light, why not just rig up a suicide cord. If it burns the place down, just get rid of the suicide cord before the authorities have a chance to investigate. Then all that insurance money will finally be put to good use. Just remember to plug the electric dryer back into the outlet you unplugged it from to make room for the suicide cord.

If that scenario doesn't work for you, just spend the money on an approved solution.

It sounds like you are afraid of pulling the meter and electricity in general, I understand.

This solution was approved by me.

Why would I use a suicide cord when I already have a far superior way to tie in power already installed?
I think you should keep your ideas to your self.
What advantage does a disconnect switch have over pulling the meter?

Please explain to me your insane scenario of how you think my out side panel tie in and meter removal is going to shock someone or burn down the house?
The generator output is a L14-30 receptacle on a 30 amp breaker, the panel tie in point is a short L14-30 cord on a 30 amp breaker. I made my L14-30 extension cords out of 10/4 SJ wire.

[NiHaoMike]

What about using a small CHP generator as a primary heat source (backup if you have solar or other alternative heat source) as well as a backup/auxiliary power source? A DPDT relay can be used to switch certain loads to generator whenever it's running regardless of the status of the mains power.