Insulating the garage

[digger doug]

Originally Posted by Daox

Yeah, that is really the question. If I insulate right now with cellulose, that particle board is not coming off. If it did have to come off I would have a heap of cellulose to clean up and have to find a new way to blow it back in.

See my post about insulation blowers.....it's called commercial wall spray.
mix elmers glue with water 6-8 to 1, and go to town.

I've included 1 pix of the garage I did with it.

Can pull it off easily for re-model, and can fix it if you build your own
set-up.

Buy the insulation from Lowes, borrow the machine, add your nozzle & pump.

There's no cutting & fitting of sheets around obstructions when it comes out of a hose.....

[Christ]

Originally Posted by digger doug

See my post about insulation blowers.....it's called commercial wall spray.
mix elmers glue with water 6-8 to 1, and go to town.

I've included 1 pix of the garage I did with it.

Can pull it off easily for re-model, and can fix it if you build your own
set-up.

Buy the insulation from Lowes, borrow the machine, add your nozzle & pump.

There's no cutting & fitting of sheets around obstructions when it comes out of a hose.....

I don't remember exactly, but with blown cellulose, there is a way to make it a solid mass. If you spray that solid mass against plastic, it will be easily removeable for future projects, and will come down in solid batts.

It's more time intensive than just blowing it in, doesn't quite have the same R value per thickness, and it's really a PITA, but it works if you think you'll ever need to remove the insulation for something, and plan on putting it back in the same places it came from.

[Daox]

The idea of sprayed in cellulose is a great idea and one I'd be open too. However, I think I still want to get that particle board out of there just for peace of mind.

[Christ]

Originally Posted by Daox

The idea of sprayed in cellulose is a great idea and one I'd be open too. However, I think I still want to get that particle board out of there just for peace of mind.

Don't get me wrong... I hate blown cellulose fiber. That doesn't make it any less of a great insulation, I just hate it. Soy-based sprayed foam is good too, but damn, it's not fun to play with once it sets.

Seems like the worst offenders for post-installation updating seem to be the best insulators out there, eh?

[digger doug]

Originally Posted by Christ

Don't get me wrong... I hate blown cellulose fiber. That doesn't make it any less of a great insulation, I just hate it. Soy-based sprayed foam is good too, but damn, it's not fun to play with once it sets.

Chris ? your not eating the stuff are you ?

I can't figure out your hatred towards cellulose.....time to confess.
(maybe form a group)

It doesn't itch like fiberglass, but you doo need to wear a paper dust mask
for the borax fire retardent, 'else your throat will remind you.

Foam, yes sticky, flammable (must be covered over with drywall
or other fire proofing) smelly when applying. The "A" product is
a nasty chemical that can cause sensitization and chemical burns.

It's not like I want to roll around in the stuff all day, nor do it for
a living, but compared to batts of fiberglass, insulation coming
out of a hose is always better.

We have a local manufacturer of the cellulose, and I've been there
a couple of times....the dust is piled up a foot deep in some areas.

[Christ]

Originally Posted by digger doug

Chris ? your not eating the stuff are you ?

I can't figure out your hatred towards cellulose.....time to confess.
(maybe form a group)

It doesn't itch like fiberglass, but you doo need to wear a paper dust mask
for the borax fire retardent, 'else your throat will remind you.

Foam, yes sticky, flammable (must be covered over with drywall
or other fire proofing) smelly when applying. The "A" product is
a nasty chemical that can cause sensitization and chemical burns.

It's not like I want to roll around in the stuff all day, nor do it for
a living, but compared to batts of fiberglass, insulation coming
out of a hose is always better.

We have a local manufacturer of the cellulose, and I've been there
a couple of times....the dust is piled up a foot deep in some areas.

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/j...ay-after-4.jpg

No, no, I'm not eating it.. there was over 1,000 lbs of the stuff in the house that I was tearing down, and due to horrible construction practices, NONE of it was salvageable. It was the worst time moving it every time it got in the way, and because it was all wet, and holds water like crazy, it was heavy, and soaked parts of the house that would otherwise have been salvageable.

The boron dust is horrible, as well, and the stuff is still inflammable (we used it to start a fire to dry ourselves out after it rained while we were still tearing down... after using the rain to clean the cellulose dust off our skin, because once you've been in it long enough, it does in fact itch.)

Soy foam is a great product... except for when it hardens up, and becomes a solid mass that covers everything, and needs to be carved to get where you need to go... and then it doesn't even always carve out in one piece, you often get "popcorn" from it.

Given that it's a garage, and not an occupied space, I wouldn't put the wiring in the walls. I'd run external conduit once the walls are taken care of, so that if anything ever needs to be changed, it won't be such an issue to get rid of it.

Daox -

Since you're going to pull down the particle board, it would be a good idea to consider re-use options for it. No sense in throwing away perfectly good fiber-board, right?

OSB is the best choice for walls, because it's treated against moisture absorption on one side (it's designed for the purpose) whereas plywood will eventually soak up water and begin to rot, unless you use treated plywood, which brings on a host of other personal environment issues that you may or may not be concerned with.

[Daox]

I'll have to evaluate the condition of the particle board when I get around to removing it. As it is, the board seems a bit soft when you push on it. When I push on the plywood in the corners it is solid. If I can salvage it I definitely will.

The particle board will be replaced with OSB.

[digger doug]

Originally Posted by Christ

.

The boron dust is horrible, as well, and the stuff is still inflammable (we used it to start a fire to dry ourselves out after it rained while we were still tearing down... after using the rain to clean the cellulose dust off our skin, because once you've been in it long enough, it does in fact itch.)

Soy foam is a great product... except for when it hardens up, and becomes a solid mass that covers everything, and needs to be carved to get where you need to go... and then it doesn't even always carve out in one piece, you often get "popcorn" from it.

Christ,
sorry to hear of your troubles, I've only worked these 2 jobs
using new, clean and fresh material.

I blew the cellulose on the wall of my shop, and then later welded
pipe supports onto the steel columns. I wire brushed off the glued
on cellulose around it, but still charred some in place.

It startled me to be smoking (after I lifted my helmet) , but a quick brush
with my hand had it out. I let some more "go" and it quickly went out
on it's own.

Before I started building my equipment, I tested the material myself
with a torch, from underneath (simulating real conditions) and
even with material that was left out in the rain for 6 months
(looked like paper mache') I could not discern any change in the
fire suppression action.

I tested samples of foam from a neighbors tear out (was applied 1 year before, and was the newer 1 lb foam) and I did not like the results I was getting. Both in fire suppression, and liberated smoke.

I did note that, in talking with my local cellulose manuf. they add more
fire retardent than the suppliers to Lowes and Home Depot.

If you like foam, here's a hint to get the juices flowing.....

Styrofoam, packing peanuts included, can be stuck with pva
AKA elmers glue. Meaning, you could blow the material using
the equipment I have built, and by adding the glue/water mix,
have it stick in place (no settling). My local styrofoam supplier
sell's large bags of "regrind" scrap.

[Daox]

Apparently the boards that are on the garage are a tar (or something) impregnated board. They are not structural, but they were used as an alternative to OSB. So, I'm rethinking taking the siding off. The only thing is I'd still like to tyvek it, so I'm not sure what I'm doing there yet.

I'm starting with first things first though, the wiring. I spent last night cleaning the garage getting ready for this weekend. My father in law should be coming down to help wire up the garage.

[Daox]

We started electrical work on the garage started Friday morning.

But, first a few more before pictures.

The service panel in the basement. It has a good number of those dual breakers that have two circuits in one spot.



More garage wiring that isn't to code.






My wife took off Thursday actually and dug out a trench where the pvc pipe was run for the wiring to the garage. I felt bad for her, because it was raining most of the day too! What a gal, eh?






Friday morning my father in law began to take apart the service panel. SO many wires... I'm really glad he was there and knows what he is doing.




While he was busy doing the wiring inside the house, my wife, myself and my mother in law ripped out the wiring in the garage. After that was done, we started putting new recepticals, other needed boxes, and started wiring.




Here is how the recptical boxes were mounted to space them out for the mooney wall.




Checking back in with my father in law, he had the new backing board made and the new service panel was installed. He had already begun hooking the circuits back up.




Back out in the garage again, I mounted up the old service panel that was in the house. I chose to space it away from the wall to get more insulation behind it.






That about buttons it up for Friday's work. More to come, soon!