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Old 07-03-16, 07:05 PM   #51
Fordguy64
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Yea I will probably get a quote for a well just to see what they say but I think the rain water will be way cheaper and fun!

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Old 07-03-16, 08:17 PM   #52
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I have a 600' well, had we known that we'd have to go that deep we would have looked more closely at rain water catchment. The issue with rain water catchment is drought. Around here there really isn't the delivery infrastructure to get water delivered, that means I would have to massively upsize my holding capacity. At minimum I would need a 10,000 gallon holding tank, and likely more than that. a 10,000 gallon tank is going to run around $7-8K installed plus pumping expenses (similar to a well) with the addition of water treatment for biologicals that just isn't needed with most wells, and an additional treated water holding tank. Add more storage capacity and the price only rises. There is a pretty decent way to see if rain catchment is an economical choice, look around and see if there are any installed in your area. There tend to be pretty good reasons why one method is preferred in an area vs. other options.
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Old 07-05-16, 05:54 AM   #53
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I have it figured out with 2 5000 gallon above ground tanks and pumps and filters for about 7k and I think that will be on the high end. Something I like about the cisterns is I would know when I was going to run dry. With a well it could happen any day
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Old 07-05-16, 06:14 AM   #54
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The Cincinnati area has many thousands of residential shallow (< 300feet) domestic water wells. It is well known for high quality, soft (limestone) water.

Get a quote for a well!

Steve
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Old 07-05-16, 08:07 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fordguy64 View Post
I have it figured out with 2 5000 gallon above ground tanks and pumps and filters for about 7k and I think that will be on the high end. Something I like about the cisterns is I would know when I was going to run dry. With a well it could happen any day
If you do end up going with Rain Water Harvesting, my Dad and Mom have been living with a rain water harvesting system for years now. Necessity drove them towards that. It would cost $100k for municipal water and the well digger failed at digging a well. They were pumping water from a cave about 600' (200 vertical ft) away for a few years but decided rain water was much easier to maintain. I am not trying to "sell" my dad's book, but he did write one about rain water harvesting, which is significantly more detailed than what is currently out there now.
https://www.amazon.com/Modern-Potabl...s=books&sr=1-1

Also, if you are interested, I can give you his number and he would be glad to talk with you about it.
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Old 07-07-16, 09:42 PM   #56
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Ok so I'm meeting with the owners of the property tomorrow after noon. I have a ton of questions for them and I hope they are ready ok so I will get a quote for a well before I do anything with rain water.

I still haven't decided what to do about heating and cooling.. I think as far as pex in the concrete goes I will do the basement for sure. But since part of the house will be over a basement that leads me into figuring out radiant floor for that part of the house.. The only system I really like is warmboard but that's $$$$ it also has me thinking about radiant in the garage.. I won't be out there every day so is radiant really the way to go in the garage? Or just stick with the trusty forced air. But if I'm only going to do it in the basement is it really worth it with having to come up with pumps and valves and a water heater just for that? Or should I just go ahead and put it in all the concrete and if it gets use it does? But then that's 1500-2000$ I could spend on something else!

Life is full of choices
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Old 07-07-16, 11:10 PM   #57
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If the possibility that you might ever seriously want to try it exists, put the pex in when you pour your slabs. If you believe you will never regret not doing it, leave it out. Your clear conscience is much more important than a thousand bucks or three.

As for the garage, if you seal it and insulation is installed, it will become much more comfortable, even without any significant heating or cooling system installed. This is an important factor to consider due to the nature of things you csn keep inside it. Besides vehicles lasting longer, paint, furniture, and other not so durable items can live a long life without spoilage inside a decent envelope.
This is a major difference between the garages that get used regularly after construction and those that don't. If you know it's not going to be sweltering in there, on say a hot afternoon in August, you might just decide to use it.
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Old 07-08-16, 04:55 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fordguy64 View Post
I still haven't decided what to do about heating and cooling. I think as far as pex in the concrete goes I will do the basement for sure. But since part of the house will be over a basement that leads me into figuring out radiant floor for that part of the house.. The only system I really like is warmboard but that's $$$$ it also has me thinking about radiant in the garage.. I won't be out there every day so is radiant really the way to go in the garage? Or just stick with the trusty forced air. But if I'm only going to do it in the basement is it really worth it with having to come up with pumps and valves and a water heater just for that? Or should I just go ahead and put it in all the concrete and if it gets use it does? But then that's 1500-2000$ I could spend on something else!

Life is full of choices
For the garage there is overhead radiant as well. That way you have heat applied directly to you as well as the other surfaces, relying less on air temperature to keep you warm. The issue with infloor radiant is it has to warm the floor up first, so it's best for something that needs to be heated 24/7. With overhead radiant there is basically no thermal mass to heat up before heat is applied to you. The downside to it is that because you will be cycling the system from very cold to warm you need more capacity in the system, and it won't be efficient during times when you keep the space heated.

The other issue with Garages is the massive amount of ventilation that is needed for them. An attached garage needs to be at a lower air pressure than what is on the other side (house interior side) of attached walls. This is because there is typically a VOC pressure difference between the garage and the house. Like water vapor and normal air gasses VOCs want to move from where there is a high concentration to a low concentration. If we can get some air flow from inside the house to the garage then we can counter act the VOC pressure difference and keep this from happening, the issue is that air flow needs to happen across all attached areas. So the house interior must be at a higher air pressure than the garage across the entirety of the attached walls. The best way to deal with this is to have a detached garage. If you must have an attached garage then for a 2 car garage my back of the envelope calculations suggest a need for about a 20 cfm continuous exhaust fan. But that is just a calculation, not a tested conclusion. The other issue with the high VOC concentrations in the garage is that they are not healthy. ASHRAE calls for garage ventilation rates to be 3 times or more higher than what it calls for in living spaces. Granted these rates are for work areas and for most home garages the occupancy times create a fraction of the exposure to VOCs as you'd get in a work place. If you are going to use the garage for your hobbies then I suggest following ASHRAE at least while the garage is occupied, during non-occupancy I think residential levels of ventilation should be the minimum requirement.

As for heating and cooling I think that decision is best left until you have initial plans drawn up. (known widow sizes and basic construction details including orientation and shading) From there you can start doing some energy modeling and see what equipment works for your situation. It's easy to say oh get a GSHP, or a mini-split, or a high efficiency gas furnance, etc... but the reality is the ideal solution won't be known until you know what it is you need the system to do.
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Old 07-08-16, 06:40 AM   #59
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This property might not allow for an attached garage at the size I want. So it is a good possibility that it might end up with a normal two car garage and a larger detached. We will find out later today when we can get out and walk around
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Old 07-08-16, 07:52 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fordguy64 View Post
This property might not allow for an attached garage at the size I want. So it is a good possibility that it might end up with a normal two car garage and a larger detached. We will find out later today when we can get out and walk around
I encourage you then to consider a car port instead of an attached garage. you'll get 80% of the benefits of the garage at a lower cost, as well as likely lower VOC risk to the house. Plus car ports are less likely to get cluttered up with crap leaving them free for car parking.

With the detached Garage you'll still have storage, and it is only marginally less convenient than the attached garage.

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