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Old 11-21-15, 10:04 PM   #111
MEMPHIS91
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Jeff, I found this post by BBP "I just bought on Ebay: New GEA flat plate HX ref./water, 40 Bar, 9 Ton. Use this for condenser?

A few days ago I bought on Ebay: New GEA flat plate HX ref./water, 30 Bar, 4.7 Ton. Use this for evaporator?

On the TXV selection, I dont know either HX restriction to flow on the ref. side, I would guess low, the water side is plenty big.

The high pressure cutout would go on the compressor output & the low pressure cutout on its input?

Do you think I should get flare or sweat for the wet line filter/dryer & TXV ?

BBP"

Would this be the hx coils you are referring to? And if so do I not need coaxial coils?

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Old 11-22-15, 01:11 AM   #112
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If that was in his "help me make this" thread, I believe he said he sold the flat plate hx's for a profit. Then he bought the oversized coaxial exchangers with the money. Since you will be using pond water, the coax exchangers would be highly preferred over brazed plate. Pond muck and plankton will quickly foul a brazed plate hx to the point of excessive pressure drop unless you use something like a sand filter in your source line. With a coax coil, you may only need a strainer screen or a sock filter to keep it happy. If the coax filter gets clogged, you can blast most of the silt and crud out with air. Since the flow is not divided, all the current can flow straight through at high turbulence and velocity.
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Old 11-22-15, 11:04 AM   #113
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Rereading the last part of the thread, I realized something: Jake is trying to BUILD an evaporator, not BUY one! Oops, my mistake. In that light, please let me shed some light on that:

The Turbotec HX coils are super-effective for their size. They use thin-wall, spiral-extruded center tubing which not only has more surface area per foot, but also forces turbulent flow at a lower feed rate. Unless you source some similar tubing to fill the interior, the heat transfer will not match the performance per foot of overall length. Not surprisingly, this special-purpose tubing costs more than standard refrigeration tubing.

Also consider the scale of this pump and dump evaporator. It is much larger in capacity than the units you are building now. It will certainly not be as forgiving of mistakes. If you run the refrigerant on the outside of the water, the whole assembly has to withstand much higher pressure than with the refrigerant running through the middle. Also, the refrigerant will be exposed to outdoor temperatures through the exterior wall. Even with super-insulation, some heat will be shed to the great outdoors when it is much colder outside than the pond water. Depending on the insulating factor, this may not hurt your efficiency too much.

With the refrigerant running through the center tubing, only the center tubing has to withstand hundreds of PSI. This makes the whole shell easier and cheaper to assemble. The refrigerant is totally surrounded by water, and in your situation it will always be colder than the pond. If you use some sort of plastic for the shell, the outdoor temperature will not influence the water temperature nearly as much as some sort of metal shell, so for the same level of insulating you get more heat into the refrigerant. If the darn thing freezes up, your plastic shell may take the strain if you have a control mechanism that prevents it from freezing solid. A metal shell is nowhere near as forgiving.

Last edited by jeff5may; 11-22-15 at 12:02 PM.. Reason: Armchair rambling
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Old 11-22-15, 12:19 PM   #114
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If the turbotec hx is the best way to go then I'm fine paying that for it.
I always thought it more efficient to have the refrigerant on the outside, but if it's not then I don't mind having the refrigerant on the inside, but I am limited on space.
Water temp in the pond last night got down to 67F. I would love to tap into that beautiful amount of btus.

Still looking into underwater insulation.
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Old 11-22-15, 09:21 PM   #115
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Deleted wrong thread
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Old 11-23-15, 06:29 AM   #116
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Wrong thread, man. This one belongs in the greenhouse heat pump thread.
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Old 11-23-15, 06:38 AM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff5may View Post
Wrong thread, man. This one belongs in the greenhouse heat pump thread.
Thanks man, I fixed it. I was thinking last night that I sure hope I put that in the right spot. lol
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Old 11-23-15, 06:47 AM   #118
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I was running over the ideas with my wife over dinner last night telling her my main concern was it freezing.
She came up with the best idea, why not build it in the greenhouse that is built onto the house? I have access to the air handler and power and the pond. Plus the greenhouse is not going to freeze.
I don't know why I was thinking it HAD to be where the outside unit is now.
Though I will loose the ability to use the outside air if it is warmer/colder than the pond, but I really don't think that is a problem.
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Old 11-26-15, 05:12 PM   #119
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I am getting ready to make a parts list.
I already own one of these http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...rch_detailpage would this pump work?
I do have a question, I know with closed loop you can add antifreeze to the loop which gives you the ability to have lower temps/keep it from freezing up. Do I only need a temp sensor on the coaxial coil to make sure it doesn't get too cold? Like at 38F it starts to back down on the compressor power until the water warms back up? I should have an endless supply(not really) of 50F+ water. So as long as my coaxial coil is the right size (5ton) then I should not have any freezing.
This make sense?
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Old 11-27-15, 05:08 PM   #120
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Just bought the 4 ton turbotec coaxial coil from BBP.
Looking at this compressor http://www.ebay.com/itm/SANYO-4-8-TO...3D251059417695

And vfd http://www.ebay.com/itm/4KW-5HP-10A-...kAAOSwyQtVtfgC

And I'm looking at using sech 80 instead of 40 in order to get better insulation. http://www.homedepot.com/p/JM-eagle-...7561/100172008

Also looking at this compressor, I would have to change up some things cause its 575 volt but it is doable. http://www.ebay.com/itm/COPELAND-ZR4...25.m3641.l6368 and this looks like the same compressor and it is dirt cheap, http://www.ebay.com/itm/COPELAND-ZR4...item2ee00c1c10
Anyone have experience going from 1 phase 220v to 3 phase 575v?

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