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Old 01-25-14, 04:49 PM   #11
Mikesolar
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We had colder than -20C and the indoor was set at 60F (I haven't changed the control to read C yet), the lowest it would go, which means the compression ratio must be close to max. I noticed a bit of oily stuff running from the flare nut down about 4' of the large tube, inside the insulation and a drip on the ground. I assume if there was enough pressure to push the oil out, some gas would also come out but I am not going to do anything like pump it down till it gets warmer. It is still heating and because there is only 5' of line set, I should have an excess of gas and oil as well.

It didn't show any leaks when the outdoor temps were around freezing.

I just looked at the specs. The max running current should be 4.5A. Bummer. I better check as I may have bought a 1.5 ton unit (but I don't think so).


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Old 01-26-14, 02:03 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikesolar View Post
...as I lost a bit of oil and doubtless a bit of gas as well over the recent cold spell...
Did you use Nylog (AKA: "snot") on the flare faces and an actual torque wrench to assure that you were tightening your flare nuts to full specification when you put your line set together?

-AC
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Old 01-26-14, 06:23 AM   #13
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The torque wrench I have is for sockets but I have been doing gas flares for 25 years and this is the first persistent problem I have had with a R410A flare. I do use Nylog (I like the snot term) and my flare tool is the Ridgid swivel that I have been using for years without problems. I was told that a bit of oil loss is not an issue and the same fridgie told me that Mitsi said the pot can sometimes pull considerably higher than the max stated running amps. Remember that it was -20C outside.

The problem is, unlike a normal split system, inverters are hard to get true readings on and they often only give you one port for pressures.
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Old 01-26-14, 08:54 AM   #14
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The torque wrench I have is for sockets but I have been doing gas flares for 25 years and this is the first persistent problem I have had with a R410A flare. I do use Nylog (I like the snot term) and my flare tool is the Ridgid swivel that I have been using for years without problems. I was told that a bit of oil loss is not an issue and the same fridgie told me that Mitsi said the pot can sometimes pull considerably higher than the max stated running amps. Remember that it was -20C outside.

The problem is, unlike a normal split system, inverters are hard to get true readings on and they often only give you one port for pressures.
I had a 1/2" torque wrench , as you said , for sockets .

I bought a 3/8" torque wrench and 3/8" drive metric " crows feet " . In both " normal " and flare nut version . I had read to position the crows foot at 90 degree on the torque wrench . ( 3 o'clock or 9 o'clock )

If the spec on the mini split is 4.5 amps of 240 VAC , then the watts are lower than my unit at 10 amps of 120 VAC . Which is what I would expect , since I remember yours was a higher SEER than my 13 SEER .

God bless
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Old 01-26-14, 09:00 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by WyrTwister View Post
I had a 1/2" torque wrench , as you said , for sockets .

I bought a 3/8" torque wrench and 3/8" drive metric " crows feet " . In both " normal " and flare nut version . I had read to position the crows foot at 90 degree on the torque wrench . ( 3 o'clock or 9 o'clock )

If the spec on the mini split is 4.5 amps of 240 VAC , then the watts are lower than my unit at 10 amps of 120 VAC . Which is what I would expect , since I remember yours was a higher SEER than my 13 SEER .

God bless
Wyr
Have you got a link to the "crows feet" thingies? Might make sense to get.
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Old 01-26-14, 09:16 AM   #16
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Have you got a link to the "crows feet" thingies? Might make sense to get.

I may be criticized for buying at Harbor Freight ?

Search results for: 'crow foot'

The thing is , I have most of the " regular " tools I need on projects . But , I find myself needing special purpose tools for many of my projects . Often , I end up using them only one or two times , not enough to worry about wearing out the tooling .

So , I buy often Harbor Freight tools . The only real concern is , if I break the HF tool ? I try to take that into account .

Truth is , the quality of many of the HF tools has improved a lot , over the last 15 years . And , most of the time , you can visually tell the difference between HF tools that are good enough and those that are not good enough .

I am OK with good enough , I do not look for perfect , in this world .

Also , at my age , I am even less likely to wear out new tooling .

And , the truth is , moth of my torque wrenches are HF .

As a side note , my mini split HP is running , as I type this .

God bless
Wyr
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Old 01-26-14, 09:44 AM   #17
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How did you lose oil and gas?
I can tell you how I lost gas & oil .

I insulated both copper refrigerant lines , except the last foot or so . I had left that " bare " so I could cut to length & flare the ends .

I had the system up and running OK . However , both lines and the brass service valves were sweating , a lot ( late June ) .

I proceeded to finish insulating the bare metal . But I dumbed up and wiggled the small line enough to cause it to leak , at the flare nut . Unfortunately , I did not notice it , then . :-)

Latter that day , the unit quit working . Went outside and noticed oil on the concrete . This was on the weekend . Was not able to buy a jug of R410a until Monday . Or get in touch with of factory technical assistance until Monday .

I had obsessed about the loss of oil , all weekend . The technical support guy asked me how much oil I lost ? I described the puddle on the concrete . He told me not to worry , a little oil on concrete will spread out to a scary size puddle . He also told me the condensers are shipped with enough oil to accommodate the max length of line set , listed in the specifications .

When I told him I had the min 15 foot line set , he assured me I was OK .

Anyway , I re-did the flare , vacuumed the system down and weighed out the specified charge of R410a .

I bought a roll of cork insulating tape at Johnstone supply and CAREFULLY finished insulating the service valves and remainder of the copper lines .

Praise the Lord !

It worked and was still working ( in HP ) mode , a few minutes ago . When I was in the living room .

God bless
Wyr

PS This illustrates than many of my problems are self inflicted . :-(

I know quite a few ways of doing things , that do not work ! :-(
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Old 01-26-14, 09:48 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by AC_Hacker View Post
Did you use Nylog (AKA: "snot") on the flare faces and an actual torque wrench to assure that you were tightening your flare nuts to full specification when you put your line set together?

-AC
I can vouch for Nylog Blue for R410a and R134a ( automotive ) use . I think they make Nylog Red for mineral oil systems ? R12 or R22 units .

God bless
Wyr
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Old 01-26-14, 10:20 AM   #19
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So is the unit acting any different after the possible leak? This is the easiest way to tell. With an inverter unit, if you lost much gas, the compressor will run faster for longer each cycle.

The unit has an operation map in it, like a car. To find its place on the map, the compressor will have to move more gas from start-up. With R410a, the pressure difference is very high, so frosting and discharge temperature issues show up quickly compared to R22 systems. The inverter units are typically loaded to the gills with temp and pressure sensors so the controller can work well under a wide variety of conditions.

If the unit is still operating, I wouldn't sweat it too much. As long as you've sealed the leak, and the unit isn't tripping or faulting out, it's operating within its map. If it senses an abnormally low charge condition while running, it will most likely alert you to this condition. Like a car, the fault code may point to something else, but the unit will tell you something is awry.
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Old 01-26-14, 10:29 AM   #20
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Yes, the unit is working well and heats well. My fridgie friends are not too concerned but I am a bit because I don't know how much gas is still in it and the only way to really find out is to take it out and weigh in the proper amount. At -15c today, that ain't gonna happen

There have been no trips or lockouts of any type so.......I'll keep on, keeping on.

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