The Homemade Heat Pump Manifesto

[S-F]

Originally Posted by Blauhung

Ok, for drilling starting to think about the possibility of finding a used treadmill. Motors in those are ~2HP and with the whole thing i've got a DC power supply and PWM speed controler in the package.

Damn! Clever!

Will it cut stone?

[randen]

Is anyone up for a discusion on the pros-cons flat plate HX vs copper Aqua Systems efficient Liquid to Refrigerant Heat Exchangers HX both are about the same money but maybe the copper wins over the stainless??
One other detail I had seen was the reverse valve in a GSHP caused a parallel flow condition through the HX reducing the efficiency as opposed to the counter-flow.

Thanks Randen

[Blauhung]

Originally Posted by S-F

Damn! Clever!

Will it cut stone?

may not cut stone, but if all you need to do is push them out of the way it may work. My thought is to gear the motor way down so you favor high torque as opposed to high RPM. Running at 30 RPM might be slow, but a 1 horse motor at 30 RPM is 175ft-lbs of torque. would need a beefy frame to hold it.

[AC_Hacker]

Originally Posted by randen

Is anyone up for a discusion on the pros-cons flat plate HX vs copper Aqua Systems efficient Liquid to Refrigerant Heat Exchangers HX both are about the same money but maybe the copper wins over the stainless??

If you are using a HX in an open source configuration (pump & dump, hot water loop also being used for DHW, etc) then accumulation of minerals or particles (AKA: scaling) would be a deal-breaker for Brazed Plate.

I don't think that the copper vs. stainless would be such an issue since the stainless layers are so thin, but if you did a BTU/$ calculation, that should tell you what you need to know.

Originally Posted by randen

One other detail I had seen was the reverse valve in a GSHP caused a parallel flow condition through the HX reducing the efficiency as opposed to the counter-flow.

Do you know how large a difference the parallel flow issue makes? It may be too small to make much difference.

But you should make sure that you have counter flow in the mode that you will be using most. I would suspect that AC mode would be secondary for you.

-AC_Hacker

Thanks Randen[/QUOTE]

[AC_Hacker]

Originally Posted by Blauhung

Ok, for drilling starting to think about the possibility of finding a used treadmill. Motors in those are ~2HP and with the whole thing i've got a DC power supply and PWM speed controler in the package.

Great idea!

Now you just have to come up with a good, strong speed reducer.

I really think 30 rpm is too slow... I get the torque idea, but somewhere around 60 to 120 rpm would be good.

And don't under estimate the part that the mud pump plays. It's not just for lubrication, it lifts the cuttings, clears the drill bit, and even erosion plays a part in the process. So you want a continuous, copious supply of mud.

The mud pump is a really important part of the tool.

-AC_Hacker

[tweeker]

I just got home from testing the Fedders 5K unit Compressor for it's BTU waste heat output.

I encapsulated/submerged the Fedders A/C Unit compressor, up to just a 1/2" below the electrical contact access caps on the top, in a container filled with water, in an 8 inch diameter PVC pipe cap and an additional 6 inches of aluminum flashing to top it off.

Just the compressor, @ 400 Watts was producing approx 900 BTU's an Hour.

So, if I were to insulate the top 6" of aluminum flashing, I think I could get 1200 BTU's an Hour @ 400 Watts just from the compressor, meaning the 5,000+ BTU's of heat generated by the condenser, could mean that this 5,000 BTU's from the Condenser would be the pay off ?

Captured the BTU's from the electricity used for the compressor, and 5,000 FREE BTU's in BONUS POINTS from the Condenser ?

Hmmmmm ? ? ? Need to do more tests ! Very Interesting :-)

[tweeker]

Hi Randen,

my limited experience with HX's, is that all parts are not equal according to the brochures, BUT having 10 times the area to dissapate the Heat/Cold in order to dissapate the fabricated energy hydronically into a air filled living area is my rile of thumb.

If I have a 1.5 Square Foot (S.F.) Condensor with TWO 1 S.F. heat exchangers (2 S.F.) in the same container, and transfering the working fluid in the container by a thermally low conductive pipe (CPVC) to a hydronic HX (heat exchanger) made of Copper, I would consider using approx 15 S.F. of HX area, or an equivalent mass cross section area, assisted by a low RPM, low Watt fan.
Just my opinion.

Tweeker

[randen]

Hello Tweeker

Thankyou for your input. The two HX I'm considering is the stainless plate HX vs the copper co-axil wound Aqua System used to exchange heat energy from the refrigerant to the water/glycol of the ground loop. The two seem so closely matched for there performance maybe AC Hacker has hit the nail on the head with BTU/$ calculation. But thats a close match as well. The cost for a 3T HX is about $160.00 for each.

Thanks Randen

[tweeker]

Wow, only $160 for a 3T HX. Which model are you referring to.

I have an old Copper Solar Flat panel HX that is 7' 9" X 34", Basically 23 S.F. I use it for hydronic heating and cooling in the living area. If I had to buy the 3/8" copper tubing to make a similar panel, then add the copper sheeting between the tubes, I think my estimate was something like $500 for just the copper materials, I got 3 of them from a recycling center for $200 EACH a couple years ago, when copper was lower in price, they weigh about 50-60 Lbs a piece. I think they were OLIN Flat Panels, I don't have any parts from the rest of the panels, it was all aluminum and I scrapped it this year.

[AC_Hacker]

AC_Hacker posting pics for tweeker...

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
Tests revealed that the Fredders Compressor was running HOT. So I thought it would be a good IDEA to see just how much HEAT I might beable to recover from the Fredders Compressor. So I took a roll of 3/16" copper coil I had squirreled away and made a coil that would screw on and wrap around the Fredders compressor.

Stages of the Compressor heat recovery Coil installation Part 2

Stages of the Compressor Coil installation Part 1

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>

End of post.

tweeker,

If you want more pictures posted, you're going to have to do it yourself, or find someone else to do it for you...

Somehow I thought you lived here in Portland Oregon. I'm not inclined to go to Pennsylvania to show you how to post pics.

-AC_Hacker