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Old 02-13-13, 12:17 AM   #1
AtomTrainer
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Default Source for R-290 in USA

I am looking for a sorce for R-290 in the us. I am a EPA cert HVAC/R tech, when i ask for this at my local suppliers they get ruffled fethers!

I have found a few places online that say they sell HC refrigerants but will not tell me whats in the tank!

Sam

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Old 02-13-13, 05:45 AM   #2
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a quick search on ebay:

R22 Refrigerant Alternate Envirosafe R22A Replaces R22 | eBay
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Old 02-13-13, 06:45 AM   #3
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I wouldn't buy that stuff from fleabay. There s no manufacturers address and to be legit, you need some backup. Since the use of R290 is just getting started on this side of the pond, and supplies are limited, I would just double filter BBQ propane and set up a system to get any moisture out of it.
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Old 02-13-13, 08:52 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff5may View Post
a quick search on ebay:Yea
Yea, as i said they will not tell me whats in the drum. Just that it is HC based, I am looking for pure R-290! I want to run compressor efficiency test with results that are repeatable! BBQ gas has differant makeup depending on supplyers and if the guys that are selling HC refrigerant gas will not give me the makeup that is no better.

I have a reclaimer that can clean refrigerant to ARI 700 standerds so if BBQ gas were not a cocktail i would clean it a and use it, but i am looking for pure gas for testing.

Sam
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Old 02-13-13, 09:21 AM   #5
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NRI has it in 14oz cans pure R290 you can get it from any united refrigeration part number 014R290 they are checking on the prices.

Air Gas Refrigerants of houston can get it the guys name is ricky kint his number is 281-361-6211 he is checking on prices and weights they have.

Will update when i get more info!
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Old 02-13-13, 11:35 AM   #6
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So I called the company that makes the ES-22A and talked with a tech named randy.

Randy seams to me more of a sales man than a tech, he did inform me that the ES-R22A product is 97% R-290 with 3% other HC gases mixed into it for proformance boosters.

Other than the above i got nothing of importance from our conversation, most of what he said was how his product blew the socks off any other HC product.


The price of ES-22A is $178 shipped for 12lbs drum "this is equal to 30lbs of 22"

I have some refrigerant samples that will be tested by NRI in the comming weeks i am thinking of ordering some of the ES-22A to be tested!

Still waiting on prices from other two vendors!
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Old 02-13-13, 11:43 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikesolar View Post
I wouldn't buy that stuff from fleabay. There s no manufacturers address, and to be legit, you need some backup...
The suppliers of R22a used to have this web address:

es-refrigerants.com

But now it won't even ping.

Now it looks like they have re-branded themselves to:

coolantexpress.com

Their prices are pretty high, about the same as R-22.

But it looks like we have good techniques worked out to upgrade Bar-B-Que gas to serviceable R290.

-AC
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Old 02-13-13, 12:41 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by AC_Hacker View Post

es-refrigerants.com

But now it won't even ping.

Now it looks like they have re-branded themselves to:

coolantexpress.com

Their prices are pretty high, about the same as R-22.

But it looks like we have good techniques worked out to upgrade Bar-B-Que gas to serviceable R290.

-AC

They are still in operation, they are having server issues. ES-Refrigerants as per there tech support brands 60 some odd private labled HC products for other vendors and yes coolent express is one of the brands.

Any one can call ES and order drums with no ID marks and make a private branded product.

The problem with BBQ grill gas is it is not all created equal.

I am looking to do repeatable test and that will never happen with a low grade gas!

NRI 14oz cans are $530 at united refrigeration,,, The sales dept even called and verrified the price!
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Old 02-13-13, 05:37 PM   #9
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Blah,blah,blah, it's not real, it's not pure, it's not name brand, where can I buy the real stuff, etc....

Case in point:
http://www.jmcampbell.com/tip-of-the...ration-system/

The main idea is this:

If you're a pro, your supplier can get it. You should know where to look. Is it cheap? Not from Airgas, National, Linde, etc. This stuff is not unknown, it is trying to be denied a future in America. Industry has been using propane, propylene, butane, ehtane, and ammonia as refrigerants for 100 years plus. Their propertes and usefulness are proven. Only since 2010 have they been considered seriously as replacements for traditional, halogen-based refrigerants.

Should you use it? The answer is it depends. Probably not in a customer's heat pump. Not yet, anyway.

Linde has their own line of natural refrigerants. Take a look here:

Gas2010 | Natural Refrigerants

"Linde" brand R290 is Care 40, and guess what? Just about the same price as R22.

IMHO, Worthington or Bernz-o-matic Fat Boy cans are at least 95% r290 (HD-5 grade), pre-blended with up to 5% of propylene (r1270 aka Care 45), butane (r600), and/or ethane (r170) as an added bonus. If there's much more than .001% of non-condensible gas or water in the mix, it messes with the process at the propane plant and it won't liquify in their still. The only thing you have to worry about is the "stink oil", which a standard catch-all will catch on the way in. For $3 a quart, that's what I use with great success.

If I were a scientist doing precise lab experiments for the government, I would source pure R290 and eliminate all doubt. However, my labor would far outweigh the $20 per pint expense of the propane. But Uncle Sam would get his money's worth.

Last edited by jeff5may; 02-13-13 at 06:42 PM.. Reason: clarity
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Old 02-13-13, 08:07 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff5may View Post
Blah,blah,blah, it's not real, it's not pure, it's not name brand, where can I buy the real stuff, etc....

Case in point:
Effect of Impurities on Propane Refrigeration System | Campbell Tip of the Month

The main idea is this:

If you're a pro, your supplier can get it. You should know where to look. Is it cheap? Not from Airgas, National, Linde, etc. This stuff is not unknown, it is trying to be denied a future in America. Industry has been using propane, propylene, butane, ehtane, and ammonia as refrigerants for 100 years plus. Their propertes and usefulness are proven. Only since 2010 have they been considered seriously as replacements for traditional, halogen-based refrigerants.

Should you use it? The answer is it depends. Probably not in a customer's heat pump. Not yet, anyway.

Linde has their own line of natural refrigerants. Take a look here:

Gas2010 | Natural Refrigerants

"Linde" brand R290 is Care 40, and guess what? Just about the same price as R22.

IMHO, Worthington or Bernz-o-matic Fat Boy cans are at least 95% r290 (HD-5 grade), pre-blended with up to 5% of propylene (r1270 aka Care 45), butane (r600), and/or ethane (r170) as an added bonus. If there's much more than .001% of non-condensible gas or water in the mix, it messes with the process at the propane plant and it won't liquify in their still. The only thing you have to worry about is the "stink oil", which a standard catch-all will catch on the way in. For $3 a quart, that's what I use with great success.

If I were a scientist doing precise lab experiments for the government, I would source pure R290 and eliminate all doubt. However, my labor would far outweigh the $20 per pint expense of the propane. But Uncle Sam would get his money's worth.
OK, what then about basic BBQ gas and a couple of filters as I would like?

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