water storage in house

kenora · 04-17-14, 02:49 PM

I am considering adding a 2000 gallon water storage tank in the heated crawlspace for a couple of reasons and want to know if my reasoning is sound...

I have about 600 sq ft of unused space (other than storage and thats minor) under my home, the furnace, hot water tank and lake water pump control, and 20 gallon pressure tank are down there. Its about 4'6" high with a concrete floor.

This winter the water pump (in about 12 ft of water in the lake 100 ft away) fell over or got knocked over as the ice is deep (4 ft +) and the water level is lower than usual. That left the water supply sputtering and pumping sand, silt and air so we are hauling water till the ice breaks up and I can fix the pump.

I could either fill the cistern with lake water or figure out a way to keep it full with rain water...

I would like the water storage to..

a- be a back up supply as this happens every couple years and..
b- as thermal mass (2000 gallons (imp) is 20000 lbs, once up to 70f or so it would give me more mass to slow a freeze if the power goes out.

Is my thinking valid? Hss anyone done this? What does it cost? I would like a flexible rubber tank that would be supported by framing.....(I think

)

ps; it would not be used for drinking.

Elcam84 · 04-17-14, 04:08 PM

Not a bad idea. There are bladder tanks but they are quite expensive. A plastic or metal tank has the issue of not being able to be put into place under the house.

The thermal mass idea is interesting but you would still have to get that cold water warmed up. I get 17000lbs for 2K gallons. You must have allot more heavy water in your lake than we do.

Another issue is the weight of that water and what is supporting it. May be ok may not be depending on the concrete thickness and the soil conditions under it.

kenora · 04-17-14, 04:15 PM

bigger gallons

(really..Imperial gallons)... and the concrete is poured right over granite...won't be an issue with weight

I would fill the tank in the summer when the lake water temp is around 70f...

I am renovating the house nest spring and will have a crawlspace wall opened up so that is the "opportunity" to get a bladder or tank in there.

NiHaoMike · 04-17-14, 04:58 PM

It sounds like a good idea. Also, what is your heating fuel? If it's relatively expensive like oil or propane, a heat pump sourcing from that big tank might make sense. (If it's cheap like natural gas, CHP would make more sense.) Then you can plan for enough room to add some copper tubing inside the tank to use as a heat exchanger.

kenora · 04-17-14, 07:19 PM

Currently burning dinosaurs and at $1.30/liter that's gonna end with the renovation...

I will be switching to a couple of ASHP and electric baseboard backup. My heat load should be low with the addition of 4" EPS on the exterior of the new addition and added to the old.

Doing my best to get a LOW heat/cooling load so I don't break the bank heating with resistive electric below -25c (bottom end apparently for Mr Slim)

NiHaoMike · 04-17-14, 08:11 PM

It seems like a DIY water source heat pump (pulling from the tank) would make a lot of sense as a second stage. And if you can add a geothermal loop (with a glycol mix inside it), you can also use that.

kenora · 04-17-14, 08:35 PM

I've got to learn more about that... can you add a link to a good diy post... thanks

NiHaoMike · 04-17-14, 09:18 PM

There are several builds in the geothermal and heat pump section.

doug30293 · 04-24-14, 04:57 AM

If you live near a food processing plant you might be able to purchase used IBC's (intermediate bulk container) for less than the cost of a bladder. I just picked up three from a salvage yard for $35 each.

These hold 275 gallons and are framed into a metal pallet. The top opening is about 7 inches and there is a 2 inch ball valve at the bottom. I bought mine for drinking water.

I'm not sure of the rated temperature but I have put 140F oil in the ones at work several times. They should be suitable for storing heat.

04-17-14, 02:49 PM	#1
kenora Lurking Renovator Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Kenora, ON Canada Posts: 26 Thanks: 21 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	water storage in house I am considering adding a 2000 gallon water storage tank in the heated crawlspace for a couple of reasons and want to know if my reasoning is sound... I have about 600 sq ft of unused space (other than storage and thats minor) under my home, the furnace, hot water tank and lake water pump control, and 20 gallon pressure tank are down there. Its about 4'6" high with a concrete floor. This winter the water pump (in about 12 ft of water in the lake 100 ft away) fell over or got knocked over as the ice is deep (4 ft +) and the water level is lower than usual. That left the water supply sputtering and pumping sand, silt and air so we are hauling water till the ice breaks up and I can fix the pump. I could either fill the cistern with lake water or figure out a way to keep it full with rain water... I would like the water storage to.. a- be a back up supply as this happens every couple years and.. b- as thermal mass (2000 gallons (imp) is 20000 lbs, once up to 70f or so it would give me more mass to slow a freeze if the power goes out. Is my thinking valid? Hss anyone done this? What does it cost? I would like a flexible rubber tank that would be supported by framing.....(I think ) ps; it would not be used for drinking. Last edited by kenora; 04-17-14 at 04:02 PM..

04-17-14, 04:15 PM	#3
kenora Lurking Renovator Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Kenora, ON Canada Posts: 26 Thanks: 21 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	bigger gallons (really..Imperial gallons)... and the concrete is poured right over granite...won't be an issue with weight I would fill the tank in the summer when the lake water temp is around 70f... I am renovating the house nest spring and will have a crawlspace wall opened up so that is the "opportunity" to get a bladder or tank in there. Last edited by kenora; 04-17-14 at 04:19 PM..

04-17-14, 04:58 PM	#4
NiHaoMike Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,154 Thanks: 14 Thanked 257 Times in 241 Posts	It sounds like a good idea. Also, what is your heating fuel? If it's relatively expensive like oil or propane, a heat pump sourcing from that big tank might make sense. (If it's cheap like natural gas, CHP would make more sense.) Then you can plan for enough room to add some copper tubing inside the tank to use as a heat exchanger. __________________ To my surprise, shortly after Naomi Wu gave me a bit of fame for making good use of solar power, Allie Moore got really jealous of her...

04-17-14, 08:11 PM	#6
NiHaoMike Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,154 Thanks: 14 Thanked 257 Times in 241 Posts	It seems like a DIY water source heat pump (pulling from the tank) would make a lot of sense as a second stage. And if you can add a geothermal loop (with a glycol mix inside it), you can also use that. __________________ To my surprise, shortly after Naomi Wu gave me a bit of fame for making good use of solar power, Allie Moore got really jealous of her...

04-17-14, 09:18 PM	#8
NiHaoMike Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,154 Thanks: 14 Thanked 257 Times in 241 Posts	There are several builds in the geothermal and heat pump section. __________________ To my surprise, shortly after Naomi Wu gave me a bit of fame for making good use of solar power, Allie Moore got really jealous of her...

04-17-14, 04:08 PM	#2
Elcam84 Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: TX Posts: 275 Thanks: 2 Thanked 31 Times in 24 Posts	Not a bad idea. There are bladder tanks but they are quite expensive. A plastic or metal tank has the issue of not being able to be put into place under the house. The thermal mass idea is interesting but you would still have to get that cold water warmed up. I get 17000lbs for 2K gallons. You must have allot more heavy water in your lake than we do. Another issue is the weight of that water and what is supporting it. May be ok may not be depending on the concrete thickness and the soil conditions under it.

04-17-14, 07:19 PM	#5
kenora Lurking Renovator Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Kenora, ON Canada Posts: 26 Thanks: 21 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Currently burning dinosaurs and at $1.30/liter that's gonna end with the renovation... I will be switching to a couple of ASHP and electric baseboard backup. My heat load should be low with the addition of 4" EPS on the exterior of the new addition and added to the old. Doing my best to get a LOW heat/cooling load so I don't break the bank heating with resistive electric below -25c (bottom end apparently for Mr Slim)

04-17-14, 08:35 PM	#7
kenora Lurking Renovator Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Kenora, ON Canada Posts: 26 Thanks: 21 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I've got to learn more about that... can you add a link to a good diy post... thanks

04-24-14, 04:57 AM	#9
doug30293 Too Many Projects Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: georgia Posts: 91 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts	If you live near a food processing plant you might be able to purchase used IBC's (intermediate bulk container) for less than the cost of a bladder. I just picked up three from a salvage yard for $35 each. These hold 275 gallons and are framed into a metal pallet. The top opening is about 7 inches and there is a 2 inch ball valve at the bottom. I bought mine for drinking water. I'm not sure of the rated temperature but I have put 140F oil in the ones at work several times. They should be suitable for storing heat.