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Old 04-24-14, 06:38 PM   #11
ecomodded
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Good to see your success with this , sounds like you have it tweaked perfectly.

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Old 04-24-14, 10:13 PM   #12
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The current electronic residential meters do read power factor. According to the elec guy that I talk to that installs and sets up the commercial meters the elec company does monitor what is going on the PF in residential applications and said not to be surprised if it becomes a place for fees like it is for commercial as it has been talked about.
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Old 04-26-14, 02:27 AM   #13
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I have seen a digital residential meter that had a tally for counting "80% VA" power consumption.
I can only assume they are collecting your power consumption when average power factor going onto the house drops below 0.80, to charge you more.
The meter I saw had collected 100s or thousands of regular watts of consumption, but only 10k of the infamous "80% VA".

On an electromechanical residential meter, it doesnt track power factor but as you use more VoltAmps those VoltAmps spin the meter faster.
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Old 04-26-14, 05:02 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
I have seen a digital residential meter that had a tally for counting "80% VA" power consumption.
I can only assume they are collecting your power consumption when average power factor going onto the house drops below 0.80, to charge you more.
The meter I saw had collected 100s or thousands of regular watts of consumption, but only 10k of the infamous "80% VA".

On an electromechanical residential meter, it doesnt track power factor but as you use more VoltAmps those VoltAmps spin the meter faster.
I was told , in school , that the traditional electro-mechanical meters Measure only true kilowats , not volt amprts ?

God bless
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Old 04-26-14, 05:59 PM   #15
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Check out my watt versus VoltAmp tests in the OP using a residential electromechanical meter.
It definitely responded to the excessive VoltAmps load I put on it as if they were watts.
The way excessive voltamps load down a generator I think the power company should charge for them.

I originally started out on this power factor thing to make my machines corporate with long extension cords and being powered remotely by a generator. Its turned into an attempt to turn the utility meter slower, which is working quite well.

Last edited by oil pan 4; 04-26-14 at 06:03 PM..
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Old 05-13-14, 03:50 PM   #16
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I recently constructed another air compressor. A 220volt machine this time.
I was able to power factor correct it to save about 1.7 amps, about a 5% power savings, nothing compaired to the 25% to 30% power savings capacitors were giving me on my 120v machine.
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Old 05-17-14, 06:55 PM   #17
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I am having another go at power factor correcting my large arc welding machine.
Since I do not have a machine that figures power factor cosine for 240v power I am shooting from the hip with my box of capacitors and fluke325 amp clamp.
First I like to start small. Power factor correcting the blower fan that cools the transformer.
It started out using 0.71 amps of 240v power, which seems like a lot.
Started off by connecting a 8uf capactor to the fan, that reduced power to 0.55 amps, not bad.
Then tried a 10uf which I figured would be to big. Power consumption went up to 0.65 amps, definitely too big. Next try was with a 4uf, power consumption was down to a half amp even.
Figured what the hech might as well try the 5uf cap I have, that reduced amps to 0.48, not bad, thats saving 55 VoltAmps from just the fan alone. Thats enough power to run a fan or some lights.
I run the fan a lot, I cut power to the transformer and just run the fan to cool down the trasnformer in between welds.

Now on to the main arc welding transformer....

Last edited by oil pan 4; 05-26-14 at 03:31 AM..
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Old 05-17-14, 07:30 PM   #18
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Other power factor corrected 240 volt transformer welding machines run 40 to 60uf of capacitors connected line to line. So the amout of capacitance will be some where around there.

The main transformer runs 3.77 amps no load.
First try was with the 10uf capacitor since I already had it sitting there, result: it dropped the power consumption to 3 amps even.
Next try was with a 25uf capacitor, that dropped no load current to 2 amps even and quieted the angry hum the transformer makes.
Still thinking there is more to be had I connected the 10uf capacitor to the 25uf, making a 35uf capacitor, that reduced power to 1.71 amps.
Then swapped out the 35uf assembly for a single 40uf capacitor, that increased power consumption to 1.76 amps.

So 35uf of capacitance saves around 535 voltamps at no load.

For testing I am going to connect twin 440volt 40uf caps line to neutral, since arc welders have a way of killing 440volt motor run capactors connected line to line.

Weld output appears unchanged.

Connecting the capacitors in parallel, running each capacitor L to N seems to lessen their capacitance, causing the machine to draw 2.2 amps at no load as opposed to 1.76 amps during the quick and dirty L to L single capacitor test.

Twin 55uf capacitors connected L to N seemed to do the trick.
Twin L to N 55uf capacitors plus a 5uf for the fan is almost exactly what welding machines running PFC use.

It would seem that when you run them at lower voltage they have less capacitance. Or has the effect of serriesing them up.

I ordered a set of 80uf motor run capacitors to install L to N on each line. The L to N connected 55s are causing the machine to draw around 2 amps. The 80s should get that down to around 1.75 amps.

Last edited by oil pan 4; 08-15-15 at 05:14 PM..
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Old 06-16-14, 02:22 AM   #19
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I salvaged some actual powerfactor correction capacitors made by mallory.
They are 60uf, 480v rated and are about 3 times the size of a standard 440v 60uf motor run capacitor.
Not sure what to do with them. Had I found these before I bought the 80uf capacitors to put in my large arc welder I would just use twin 60s, since its hard to beat the pirce I paid for them, free.

I did some more work with my mig welding machine. I swapped out the internal component capacitors for a single externally mounted 40uf motor run capacitor. I found the 40uf reduced amp consumption a little better than 30uf. Total saved is about 2 amps. It wont save much on the power bill but it will make the welder more extension cord or generator friendly.
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Old 06-16-14, 06:19 PM   #20
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I was looking at the PF of my well pump and its 98 after start up but it's around 50 or so when it starts. Big dip at start up with it course it's on a 100' cord though it's only 3' from the panel. I haven't built a permanant enclosure for it so I haven't run permanent power to it yet.

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