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Old 04-11-14, 09:14 AM   #51
insaneintenti0n
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Looks like you already bought one? Sorry I'm behind.

My short response though...

I hate minisplits.

They're expensive to buy. Heating is expensive. Expensive to maintain. And louder than you would expect. If I could do it over, I wouldn't have bought mine. (A 3T and a 2T running a total of six indoor blowers)

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Old 04-11-14, 10:21 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insaneintenti0n View Post
I hate minisplits.
My experience has been positive, so let's compare notes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by insaneintenti0n View Post
They're expensive to buy.
My minisplit is a Sanyo, which is considered a pretty good brand. I've had mine for about five years now, and I thought that the price was amazingly low. Especially considering the level of technical development.

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Originally Posted by insaneintenti0n View Post
Heating is expensive.
My minisplit has lowered my heating bill an amazing amount. My electric bill has increased, but only modestly. In fact, my electric bill is now lower than it was ten years ago, and it includes heating. I formerly heated with gas, and my natural gas consumption has fallen to a point so low, that I'm paying more for the various gas service charges than for the fuel I consume. I'm still using gas for hot water (demand heater) and some cooking, although I am now primarily using induction cookers.

In short, my cost for heatiing is less than half of what it was previously.

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Originally Posted by insaneintenti0n View Post
Expensive to maintain.
In the five years I have had my minisplit, I have spent nothing on maintenance because there have been no problems.

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Originally Posted by insaneintenti0n View Post
And louder than you would expect.
Did you mount your outdoor units directly to a wood-frame house?

When my unit comes on in the morning, I can hear a bit of air noise in the begining, but after the initial warmup period (10 minutes) I am generally unaware that the minisplit is running at all.

I can't hear the outdoor unit at all when I'm inside the house. When I'm outside and it is working really hard, I can hear it if I am not too far away.

When the outside unit is working just to maintain temperature level, on a winter evening, and I'm outside, it is practically unnoticeable, unless I am standing right by it.

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If I could do it over, I wouldn't have bought mine. (A 3T and a 2T running a total of six indoor blowers)
Sounds like you have a very large heating (& cooling?) load.

I have looked at the efficiency of multi-head versus single head units, and from an efficiency standpoint, the single head units are more efficient.

It would be very interesting to know more details about your setup and your experiences.

My impression is that most minisplit owners have been very satisfied with the performance, reliability and economy of their units.

It would be important to know more details as to why minisplits have been such a bad experience for you.

Then, hopefully other people could avoid the apparent mis-application that you experienced.


Sorry it worked out badly...

-AC

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Old 04-11-14, 11:49 AM   #53
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I installed my mini split last summer . Very quiet . The ticking of Wife's co-co-clock is louder .

As far as heat , can not say it changed my total cost or not ? But nice to be able to set the heat in the living room / dining room , independent to the rest of the house .

Outside temp was in the low 90's F , yesterday . Mini split was working OK on cool .

Mini splits are $$$ when compared to window shakers . Not as much when compared to traditional split systems . Assuming both are self installed .

They also give the ability to keep different parts of the house at different temperatures .

So far , I am happy with mine . Only thing I would do different is to locate the condenser in a different place . And , possibly purchase a higher SEER unit & get a tax credit ?

God bless
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Old 04-11-14, 02:07 PM   #54
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Install Cost:
Central A/C including duct work installed quote: ~$13k
Mini Split: $16.6k

Heating cost:
Typical winter month on a 1970s natural gas boiler with water filler radiators - $200-$300/month (For all gas/elec utils in my house)
Mini-split: ~$300 on the 'warm' winter month (roughly Nov, I went right back to the boiler)
Units almost don't work at all <32deg F


Yes, they're are WAY quieter than a window/wall unit, luckily, but, they still wake me in the middle of the night as the compressor kicks on and the freon flows. Winter months are the worst as it's a loud 'tick', rather than just the normal drone of a window unit.

I can also hear one of the outside units kick on when the compressor kicks on and the fan spins up. That unit IS under a set of windows though.

Already had a entire outdoor unit replaced (<6 months). Compressor died. Luckily under warranty and not out of my pocket, but, probably would have been a $4k cost w/o a warranty.


Units:
Mitsubishi Mr Slim
Outsides:
MXZ-2B20NA (2T) - Qualified for Fed tax credit
MXZ-4B36NA (3.6T) - Did not qualify for the tax credit

Insides:
MSZ-GE09NA x2 (9k BTU)
MSZ-GE06NA x4 (6k BTU)
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Old 04-11-14, 03:42 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insaneintenti0n View Post
Units almost don't work at all <32deg F
My unit has continued to produce sufficient heat at 13F.

There is a possibility that your insulation, etc. is not what it could be.

I know that Xringer's house is not insulated very well in the walls, so he has had an unusual amount of interaction with his minisplit(s).

My house is over insulated, and my little heat pump (3/4 Ton) just keeps whispering along.

Admittedly, where I live in Western Oregon, the weather is fairly mild, especially for it's latitude.

All ASHPs do put out a reduced amount of heat as it gets colder, that's pretty much 'baked in the cake'.

You never mentioned what part of the country you live in?

The ambient weather actually does matter.

Also, you didn't mention if your outside units are installed on concrete pads or are directly installed on the wall of a frame house.

That matters too.

-AC
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Old 04-11-14, 04:54 PM   #56
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You have my sympathies .

I can not see you paying that knid of money for HVAC ! :-(

But , I do self install , with help from friends and family .

I probably have around $ 900 in my 13 SEER 12,000 mini split . Including a little tooling I did not already have .

I shut the HP off at about 25 F , sounds like the condenser is taking too long to shut off . At that point , I am using 100% natural gas heat .

Gof bless
Wyr
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Old 04-11-14, 10:41 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff5may View Post
How difficult would you say installing the unit was?

Who could accomplish this feat?


How would you say your mini-split of comparable wattage performs compared to the above heater?

Does it satisfy the heating and cooling needs you bought it for, or does it exceed or fall short of what you expected?
Mini-splits are 5 to 2 times more efficient on average electricity usage wise, lower when temps are lower outside.


For install, basic electrical, and some common handy man ability is needed.
The hardest part is vacuuming the lineset (copper tubes that connect inside and outside). You can buy a pre-flared lineset to reduce the need for flare tools. There are torque ratings on the connections.

If all fails, you can hire in an installer to help you, although they may not want to work with off brand, or not back up the work.
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Old 04-12-14, 05:04 PM   #58
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Oh. Condensation too. You better make darn sure those interior wall units are mounted right or all that condensation will end up inside and dripping down your wall or on whatever is under the unit. And if the insulation on the copper rips, condensation IN your wall.

They're probably fine for a single room (garage) but definitely too much effort for a whole house.
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Old 04-13-14, 09:02 AM   #59
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Default Hmmmm...

Quote:
Originally Posted by insaneintenti0n View Post
Install Cost:
Central A/C including duct work installed quote: ~$13k
Mini Split: $16.6k

Hmm, If I had to spend 16 grand on HVAC, it had better run off atomic or solar energy and not cost a dime to run! Second choice would be ground source, and I better not have to do anything except sign checks.

Yes, they're are WAY quieter than a window/wall unit, luckily, but, they still wake me in the middle of the night as the compressor kicks on and the freon flows. Winter months are the worst as it's a loud 'tick', rather than just the normal drone of a window unit.

I can also hear one of the outside units kick on when the compressor kicks on and the fan spins up. That unit IS under a set of windows though.

Your mistake for locating outdoor unit at the head of your bed.

Already had a entire outdoor unit replaced (<6 months). Compressor died. Luckily under warranty and not out of my pocket, but, probably would have been a $4k cost w/o a warranty.


Units:
Mitsubishi Mr Slim
Outsides:
MXZ-2B20NA (2T) - Qualified for Fed tax credit
MXZ-4B36NA (3.6T) - Did not qualify for the tax credit
Total Capacity = 56000 BTU
Insides:
MSZ-GE09NA x2 (9k BTU)
MSZ-GE06NA x4 (6k BTU)
Total Capacity = 42000 BTU

Total mismatch = 14000 BTU


My big question here is: why didn't you just put all the same indoor units in?

2 x 9k on a 20k odu = 2k mismatch
4 x 9k on a 36k odu = 0k mismatch

Running many zones takes a balancing act to run efficiently. For example, the zones that gobble up heat and cooling should share one unit. The other unit should hardly ever run. Kind of like a primary and a backup heat source. No idea on which zones use what load, but it doesn't take much science to figure out. If you have your system(s) rigged that way, it will save you money. Even with a 1 ton mismatch.

Hmmmmm....

Last edited by jeff5may; 04-13-14 at 09:04 AM.. Reason: splleing
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Old 04-13-14, 07:47 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insaneintenti0n View Post
Looks like you already bought one? Sorry I'm behind.

My short response though...

I hate minisplits.

They're expensive to buy. Heating is expensive. Expensive to maintain. And louder than you would expect. If I could do it over, I wouldn't have bought mine. (A 3T and a 2T running a total of six indoor blowers)
Sorry but. I have to completely disagree with you . They are super quiet. I cant even hear mine unless its on high . Heating . Is extremely cheap . 13 bucks a month to heat the whole space i live in . 550 sq ft and sometimes ill open up the whole house and it heats the whole thing . Sooo. Unless your choppin wood and ever thing your self . It doesnt get much cheaper.

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