Using small Window A/C for DHW Heater - Page 4

hamsterpower · 05-06-12, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xringer

Check out the price of the commercial version of my little project..

geyser Electric Heat Pump Water Heater | eBay

$1,414.59 and you get an older model Geyser..

Or you can get one at sears too.
GE 50 gal. Heat Pump Electric Water Heater $999.88

This is what I put in this March. Works well so far. It lowered the basement temp 5 F at the most, but it is much dryer. So now I vent my clothes dryer inside when it's cold out. And I'm saving $24 a month in gas.

Xringer · 05-06-12, 08:58 AM

At $24 a month, break-even looks like a sure thing, in only 3.5 years.

Have you posted any details of your GE install?
I would like to know more, since I'm not super sure how well these things work in colder climates.
I've seen a bunch of on-line reviews from folks living in warmer parts of the USA,
who were happy (mostly) but few from people living in the northern areas.

hamsterpower · 05-06-12, 09:31 AM

I have not posted much as of yet, because I was waiting for the first few bills to roll in to compare. I have just seen the first bills for electric (new hearter) and gas (old heater). This "hybrid water heater" can run in three modes: all heat pump, all resistant electric, or a combination (hybrid). I have been running hybrid mode as it is still cool this spring. In this mode there was no perceivable increase on my elecric bill. Since I shut off the gas to my house after install I am no longer paying $4 a month for gas and $20 a month for "delivery and fees". As it gets warmer out I will try the heat pump only mode.

There were lots of bad reviews of this model for compressor failure, but I did find a helpful one about how it is CRITICAL to allow the unit to stand upright for 24 hours before use to allow the lubrication to be settled in the right place after shipping. We will see what happens in a year when most compressors fail. The other complaint was about excessive noise. I can hear it running in the basement but it is only as loud as a large fridge.

A little background on set up. My house was set up poorly, all hot water is used along one wall but the chimney and water heater were 30 feet of pipe away on a different wall. When I had this new water heater installed I put it right below the shower and only 10 feet of pipe from the kitchen sink and dish washer. It used to take several minutes to feel hot water at the shower, now it takes seconds.

Xringer · 05-06-12, 01:53 PM

"now it takes seconds."!!! That was a smart move! If I were to buy one these
all-in-one HP water heaters, that idea is on top of my list for making it work better..

AC_Hacker · 05-07-12, 01:32 PM

Why don't you dig up some kind of small refrig compressor, say from a little cube shaped thrift store refrigerator, and make that into a refrigerant salvage pump... and get some empty propane bottles and pump them down with you vac pump, hook every thing up with copper tubing, put your propane bottle in the freezer, vacuum every thing down before you start and use a piercing valve on your A/C unit and open it nice and slow and evacuate your A/Cs R22 into really cold propane bottles (don't over fill them).

Then you could re-use the R22 for your project.

You have been sitting on the R290 fence for well over a year.

...or else just buy a geyser for $1400, and be done with it.

-AC

Xringer · 05-07-12, 08:26 PM

I've been thinking along those lines. I picked up a "small refrig compressor" a couple of weeks ago.
(It's actually an old dehumidifier).
I've tested it, and it still works okay. but it's very old looking..
I think that I can pump it down safely, for a '"refrigerant salvage pump" project.

I've got all kinds of interesting stuff going on, now that it's getting warmer.
Bike riding is high on my daily To-Do-List..
And now we are just starting the process of buying a new car (Prius C2) for the wife.
I'm totally distracted from the hot water problem. Might be another month (or 2)
before I get back on that project..

Xringer · 06-23-12, 12:25 PM

I've been procrastinating on this project. Not wanting to spend too much time and money on it,
in case it only works mediocre during the summer and doesn't work much at all during the winter..

But today, I saw this: AIRGENERATE AIRTAP RETROFIT A7 HEAT PUMP WATER HEATER 7000 BTU GAS ELECTRIC A-7 | eBay

For $437.00.. Seems like a pretty good deal, even if it was only used during the summer, since we are burning up about $2 (in heating oil) a day right now..

I think this Ebay price is about the same as a few years ago..
It seems like this DIY-type product has been discontinued by the company..
So, they are just selling off their old stock..?.

Side view on a standard hot water heater.
http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/atta...1&d=1311022651

I think this can be installed pretty quickly and not require much tweaking..
Then, I can keep on having fun this summer!

Comments?

Xringer · 06-24-12, 08:36 AM

Humm, still for sale at Lowes..

Shop AirTap 50-Gallon 6-Year Table Top Electric Water Heater at Lowes.com

But for $714 + MA sales tax.. Not the best price I've seen..

However, they have a nice looking hot water storage tank for $307
Whirlpool 50-Gallon 6-Year Tall Electric Water Heater
Item #: 140452 | Model #: E2F50HD045V

sparkchaser · 06-25-12, 06:41 PM

Hey all,
I've been thinking of trying the DIY HP water heater too. I have a couple used in-wall (like window shakers) AC units, on e 230VAC, the other 120VAC. My WH is in a pantry in the kitchen, right next to the fridge. I was thinking I should add a couple of vents in the wall between the fridge and the pantry, and perhaps adding a small circulation fan, which would cause cool air from the HP WH to flow under the fridge, and warm air from above the fridge to flow back into the pantry, thus making the fridge and the HPWH both (in theory) work better. What do you guys think? BTW, my idea for the loop heat exchanger is to insert about 10 or 15 feet of 1/4 inch copper into the top of the WH tank via one of the top fittings such as the cold water inlet. A lot like the AIRTAP version.

Xringer · 06-25-12, 07:52 PM

The HX loop on the Airtap looks like it might be about 20 feet long.
I'll post some detailed pictures & mech details after I get one. It should be shipped soon.

I'll start a new thread, "AirTap" and doc the install etc..

I've been thinking about the diameter of the tank. If I get the narrow 50 gal, "Tall" Model,
Shop Whirlpool 50-Gallon 6-Year Tall Electric Water Heater at Lowes.com

Will it be too small for the Airtap to sit on top..?.

This is the regular sized tank..
Shop Whirlpool 50-Gallon 6-Year Electric Water Heater at Lowes.com

My guess is the space between the hot & cold pipes on top are the same on both..
So, OD of the tank might not mean a lot.. I do like the tall one.. Price and footprint.

05-06-12, 08:58 AM	#32
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	At $24 a month, break-even looks like a sure thing, in only 3.5 years. Have you posted any details of your GE install? I would like to know more, since I'm not super sure how well these things work in colder climates. I've seen a bunch of on-line reviews from folks living in warmer parts of the USA, who were happy (mostly) but few from people living in the northern areas. __________________ My hobby is installing & trying to repair mini-splits EPA 608 Type 1 Technician Certification ~ 5 lbs or less..

05-06-12, 01:53 PM	#34
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	"now it takes seconds."!!! That was a smart move! If I were to buy one these all-in-one HP water heaters, that idea is on top of my list for making it work better.. __________________ My hobby is installing & trying to repair mini-splits EPA 608 Type 1 Technician Certification ~ 5 lbs or less..

05-07-12, 01:32 PM	#35
AC_Hacker Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 4,004 Thanks: 303 Thanked 723 Times in 534 Posts	Why don't you dig up some kind of small refrig compressor, say from a little cube shaped thrift store refrigerator, and make that into a refrigerant salvage pump... and get some empty propane bottles and pump them down with you vac pump, hook every thing up with copper tubing, put your propane bottle in the freezer, vacuum every thing down before you start and use a piercing valve on your A/C unit and open it nice and slow and evacuate your A/Cs R22 into really cold propane bottles (don't over fill them). Then you could re-use the R22 for your project. You have been sitting on the R290 fence for well over a year. ...or else just buy a geyser for $1400, and be done with it. -AC __________________ I'm not an HVAC technician. In fact, I'm barely even a hacker...

05-07-12, 08:26 PM	#36
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	I've been thinking along those lines. I picked up a "small refrig compressor" a couple of weeks ago. (It's actually an old dehumidifier). I've tested it, and it still works okay. but it's very old looking.. I think that I can pump it down safely, for a '"refrigerant salvage pump" project. I've got all kinds of interesting stuff going on, now that it's getting warmer. Bike riding is high on my daily To-Do-List.. And now we are just starting the process of buying a new car (Prius C2) for the wife. I'm totally distracted from the hot water problem. Might be another month (or 2) before I get back on that project.. __________________ My hobby is installing & trying to repair mini-splits EPA 608 Type 1 Technician Certification ~ 5 lbs or less..

06-23-12, 12:25 PM	#37
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	I've been procrastinating on this project. Not wanting to spend too much time and money on it, in case it only works mediocre during the summer and doesn't work much at all during the winter.. But today, I saw this: AIRGENERATE AIRTAP RETROFIT A7 HEAT PUMP WATER HEATER 7000 BTU GAS ELECTRIC A-7 \| eBay For $437.00.. Seems like a pretty good deal, even if it was only used during the summer, since we are burning up about $2 (in heating oil) a day right now.. I think this Ebay price is about the same as a few years ago.. It seems like this DIY-type product has been discontinued by the company.. So, they are just selling off their old stock..?. Side view on a standard hot water heater. http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/atta...1&d=1311022651 I think this can be installed pretty quickly and not require much tweaking.. Then, I can keep on having fun this summer! Comments? __________________ My hobby is installing & trying to repair mini-splits EPA 608 Type 1 Technician Certification ~ 5 lbs or less..

05-06-12, 09:31 AM	#33
hamsterpower Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 142 Thanks: 0 Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts	I have not posted much as of yet, because I was waiting for the first few bills to roll in to compare. I have just seen the first bills for electric (new hearter) and gas (old heater). This "hybrid water heater" can run in three modes: all heat pump, all resistant electric, or a combination (hybrid). I have been running hybrid mode as it is still cool this spring. In this mode there was no perceivable increase on my elecric bill. Since I shut off the gas to my house after install I am no longer paying $4 a month for gas and $20 a month for "delivery and fees". As it gets warmer out I will try the heat pump only mode. There were lots of bad reviews of this model for compressor failure, but I did find a helpful one about how it is CRITICAL to allow the unit to stand upright for 24 hours before use to allow the lubrication to be settled in the right place after shipping. We will see what happens in a year when most compressors fail. The other complaint was about excessive noise. I can hear it running in the basement but it is only as loud as a large fridge. A little background on set up. My house was set up poorly, all hot water is used along one wall but the chimney and water heater were 30 feet of pipe away on a different wall. When I had this new water heater installed I put it right below the shower and only 10 feet of pipe from the kitchen sink and dish washer. It used to take several minutes to feel hot water at the shower, now it takes seconds.

06-24-12, 08:36 AM	#38
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	Humm, still for sale at Lowes.. Shop AirTap 50-Gallon 6-Year Table Top Electric Water Heater at Lowes.com But for $714 + MA sales tax.. Not the best price I've seen.. However, they have a nice looking hot water storage tank for $307 Whirlpool 50-Gallon 6-Year Tall Electric Water Heater Item #: 140452 \| Model #: E2F50HD045V __________________ My hobby is installing & trying to repair mini-splits EPA 608 Type 1 Technician Certification ~ 5 lbs or less.. Last edited by Xringer; 06-24-12 at 09:45 AM..

06-25-12, 06:41 PM	#39
sparkchaser Jack of all trades Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Washington Posts: 27 Thanks: 3 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Hey all, I've been thinking of trying the DIY HP water heater too. I have a couple used in-wall (like window shakers) AC units, on e 230VAC, the other 120VAC. My WH is in a pantry in the kitchen, right next to the fridge. I was thinking I should add a couple of vents in the wall between the fridge and the pantry, and perhaps adding a small circulation fan, which would cause cool air from the HP WH to flow under the fridge, and warm air from above the fridge to flow back into the pantry, thus making the fridge and the HPWH both (in theory) work better. What do you guys think? BTW, my idea for the loop heat exchanger is to insert about 10 or 15 feet of 1/4 inch copper into the top of the WH tank via one of the top fittings such as the cold water inlet. A lot like the AIRTAP version. __________________ I'm not cheap, I'm just economical! To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

06-25-12, 07:52 PM	#40
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	The HX loop on the Airtap looks like it might be about 20 feet long. I'll post some detailed pictures & mech details after I get one. It should be shipped soon. I'll start a new thread, "AirTap" and doc the install etc.. I've been thinking about the diameter of the tank. If I get the narrow 50 gal, "Tall" Model, Shop Whirlpool 50-Gallon 6-Year Tall Electric Water Heater at Lowes.com Will it be too small for the Airtap to sit on top..?. This is the regular sized tank.. Shop Whirlpool 50-Gallon 6-Year Electric Water Heater at Lowes.com My guess is the space between the hot & cold pipes on top are the same on both.. So, OD of the tank might not mean a lot.. I do like the tall one.. Price and footprint. __________________ My hobby is installing & trying to repair mini-splits EPA 608 Type 1 Technician Certification ~ 5 lbs or less..