Conservation in the home is meaningless - Page 3

Xringer · 07-09-12, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roflwaffle

Here's an idea! Maybe it ain't right/left, maybe it's super-rich versus everyone else?

The only thing I've seen is that legislators on both sides seem to cowed to set the clock back to the 50s in terms of the tax code. If it was good enough for the greatest generation, it's good enough for me.

For now, we'll just have to settle for the tax-the-rich tax code..
Also called the “Buffett Rule” or a Class-warfare distraction gimmick.

Some folks think the “Buffett Rule” could bring in $46.7 billion over 10 years..
(11 and a half days of deficit spending over 10 years)

Tax the rich, hurt the economy | Conservative News, Views & Books

But, by lowering the Hit zone to those making over $250k it's going to be a bit more..
Maybe enough to pay for 2 or 3 weeks of out-of-control government spending.?.

But, the numbers make no difference, it's all about getting re-elected,
and then what? Rearranging the deck chairs?

roflwaffle · 07-10-12, 01:14 AM

It's a great angle isn't it. The super-rich put the left the "we can't cut spending" team, and the right on the "we can't raise taxes" team, then watch them fight it out while they just keep on racking up the dough.

So, should we cut spending or increase taxes? The answer to that is a definite yes! And it's not just limited to taxing wealthy individuals.

In the 50s corporate taxes were about 3% of the GDP higher than they are now. That right there would cut the deficit by about $400+ billion.
Corporate Tax Rates, Then and Now | The Big Picture

If we tax people making over 100k/year at the top 1950s income tax rate that would cut the deficit by another $400+ billion.

On the flip side we can cut military spending in half, which would free up another $300+ billion, and start focusing on medical care instead of treatment like other countries do, to cut another $300 billion off of social programs, and improve the standard of living.

All told that's an easy $1.4 trillion bucks. Holy crap, we just wiped out the deficit, put America back in the black, and all we had to do was cut spending and increase taxes.

Of course, that's never gonna happen as long as the whipped Democrats and whipped Republicans keep on with their BS, but that's what elections are for. Don't drink the kook-aide about how bad taxes are for the rich or corporations, just like people on the left shouldn't about how bad spending cuts are. Guess what, just like my grandparents did in the 50s, we gotta increase taxes and cut spending, plain and simple.

Xringer · 07-10-12, 08:47 AM

Those 49% that don't pay any taxes aren't going to be happy.
And, all those people living off the doe aren't going to like seeing their beer money cut..

"The economy created just 80,000 jobs in June, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reported Friday. But that same month, 85,000 workers left the workforce entirely to enroll in the Social Security Disability Insurance program, according to the Social Security Administration."

Humm, I guess with no jobs to be had, the 'free-riders' (Nancy's term) have suddenly become Disabled. I guess it's pretty easy these days..

If only we could have done better during the last few years.
These dismal Projections were a bit too optimistic.

benpope · 07-10-12, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xringer

Those 49% that don't pay any taxes aren't going to be happy.

Please step away from the Kool-Aid, Xringer. It is true that not everyone pays Federal Income Taxes. However, 100% of people pay taxes; sales tax, state income tax, wheel tax, property tax, sin tax, marriage license, Social Security, Medicare, etc. No matter what the pundits may say, everyone pays taxes. When you take all taxes together, all income groups pay about the same percentage of income in taxes. Most of those who don't pay Federal Income Taxes work and pay in other years. The remainder are mostly students, retired, or disabled. This brief gives more detail on why "49% pay no taxes" is such a misleading statistic.

Though a "free check" from SSDI sounds like a great deal, at about $1,100 per month on average that puts you right at the poverty line. Having lived below the poverty line in my early 20s, I can assure you that it is no fun. There wasn't much beer to be had. I can't imagine having to do it with kids. Also, it is difficult to get SSDI. About 60% of applications are rejected. Of course there is fraud and we can debate how much disability dissuades people from working, but on the whole it does what it is supposed to do--supports people who are physically or mentally unable to work a normal job.

AC_Hacker · 07-10-12, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xringer

Those 49% that don't pay any taxes aren't going to be happy.

Xringer,

It is very interesting that you single out those in the lower income brackets for blame...

In the grand economic scheme of things, you my friend, are in the lower income bracket, too.

* * *

I read about a very interesting psychology experiment recently... it was set up like a game. In the game, everyone was given some amount of game money... let's just say 10 one dollar bills. In each round of the game, everyone was required to give away some money to someone else. The game was played until a stasis was reached... then the game began again.

What was repeatedly observed in the study that at some point, some players had lots of money, some players had a 'middling' amount of money and some had no money. At that point, people with middling amounts of money could give money to those with no money (like charitable giving) or they could give money to those who already had money (who didn't really need it). Time and time again, the choice was made to give money to others with money instead of those with no money... the apparent subconscious rationale being that a 'poverty class' makes those with slightly more money feel superior to those people who they perceive to be below them.

So I see that you, true to the game, are on the warpath against 'free-riders', as you refer to them, and people who don't make enough money to pay taxes.

* * *

It is a masterstroke of brainwash that the republicans, have strong allies amongst the fundamental christians... when charity, helping the poor, has been a primary christian value from the very beginning.

I guess ignorance really is extremely durable.

-AC

AC_Hacker · 07-10-12, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benpope

...When you take all taxes together, all income groups pay about the same percentage of income in taxes. Most of those who don't pay Federal Income Taxes work and pay in other years...

Not quite true...

Those in the upper stratosphere of income pay much less than the rest of us.

The Occupy Movement has correctly identified the inequities between the 99% and the 1%... and they have also correctly identified the 0.1% and the extreme inequities there.

Do you know that the government's economic statistics regarding things like income, etc actually has an upper limit, beyond which statistics are not even kept?

That is where the 0.1% live, they made it that way, and they like it that way.

Have you been keeping tabs on Mitt Romney's off-shore wealth?

No... we are not all paying similar percentages, at all.

-AC

Xringer · 07-10-12, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benpope

Please step away from the Kool-Aid, Xringer. It is true that not everyone pays Federal Income Taxes. However, 100% of people pay taxes; sales tax, state income tax, wheel tax, property tax, sin tax, marriage license, Social Security, Medicare, etc. No matter what the pundits may say, everyone pays taxes. When you take all taxes together, all income groups pay about the same percentage of income in taxes. Most of those who don't pay Federal Income Taxes work and pay in other years. The remainder are mostly students, retired, or disabled. This brief gives more detail on why "49% pay no taxes" is such a misleading statistic.

Though a "free check" from SSDI sounds like a great deal, at about $1,100 per month on average that puts you right at the poverty line. Having lived below the poverty line in my early 20s, I can assure you that it is no fun. There wasn't much beer to be had. I can't imagine having to do it with kids. Also, it is difficult to get SSDI. About 60% of applications are rejected. Of course there is fraud and we can debate how much disability dissuades people from working, but on the whole it does what it is supposed to do--supports people who are physically or mentally unable to work a normal job.

You are right about being taxed from every direction.. Death by a thousand cuts..

But, I'll bet that a lot of those who pay no fed income tax are also getting
other benefits from state&fed (like food stamps etc) that counteract some of the the smaller day-to-day taxes, like gas tax etc.

Here, there is no direct tax on food, but the folks who supply the food get to pay a ton of taxes,
and pay the extra cost of complying with nannystate regs..
I wonder how many people in the local vegetable growers chain earn more than $250k???
And will they pass their class-warfare/punishment taxes on to me??
Yeah, I think that's pretty likely..

All that extra money from higher taxes on the 'rich' is going to be great..
I heard that over the next 10 years, we are going to get enough extra
cash to pay for our runaway gov for almost 2 weeks..

Daox · 07-10-12, 11:05 AM

I think its time to bring this thread back on topic, or let it die. Either would be a good alternative.

Xringer · 07-10-12, 11:10 AM

"It is very interesting that you single out those in the lower income brackets for blame..."

Blame?? I don't blame poor people for not paying federal income taxes..
If they aren't asked to pay, why would they want to?
The only problem is the left is slowly moving up the bar on who is poor..
Now it seems like that might be moving up to $250k a year.. LOL!

The people I blame for the current mess are the left and their nanny state ideas..
Ideas like this one..

Stuart Varney Sounds off on Radio Ad Pitching Food Stamps to Seniors As a Health and Beauty Aid - YouTube

Xringer · 07-10-12, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daox

I think its time to bring this thread back on topic, or let it die. Either would be a good alternative.

Yeah, you're right..

Move along people, nothing to see here...

07-10-12, 08:47 AM	#23
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	Those 49% that don't pay any taxes aren't going to be happy. And, all those people living off the doe aren't going to like seeing their beer money cut.. "The economy created just 80,000 jobs in June, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reported Friday. But that same month, 85,000 workers left the workforce entirely to enroll in the Social Security Disability Insurance program, according to the Social Security Administration." Humm, I guess with no jobs to be had, the 'free-riders' (Nancy's term) have suddenly become Disabled. I guess it's pretty easy these days.. If only we could have done better during the last few years. These dismal Projections were a bit too optimistic. __________________ My hobby is installing & trying to repair mini-splits EPA 608 Type 1 Technician Certification ~ 5 lbs or less..

07-10-12, 11:05 AM	#28
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	I think its time to bring this thread back on topic, or let it die. Either would be a good alternative. __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

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07-10-12, 01:14 AM	#22
roflwaffle Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 116 Thanks: 29 Thanked 12 Times in 11 Posts	It's a great angle isn't it. The super-rich put the left the "we can't cut spending" team, and the right on the "we can't raise taxes" team, then watch them fight it out while they just keep on racking up the dough. So, should we cut spending or increase taxes? The answer to that is a definite yes! And it's not just limited to taxing wealthy individuals. In the 50s corporate taxes were about 3% of the GDP higher than they are now. That right there would cut the deficit by about $400+ billion. Corporate Tax Rates, Then and Now \| The Big Picture If we tax people making over 100k/year at the top 1950s income tax rate that would cut the deficit by another $400+ billion. On the flip side we can cut military spending in half, which would free up another $300+ billion, and start focusing on medical care instead of treatment like other countries do, to cut another $300 billion off of social programs, and improve the standard of living. All told that's an easy $1.4 trillion bucks. Holy crap, we just wiped out the deficit, put America back in the black, and all we had to do was cut spending and increase taxes. Of course, that's never gonna happen as long as the whipped Democrats and whipped Republicans keep on with their BS, but that's what elections are for. Don't drink the kook-aide about how bad taxes are for the rich or corporations, just like people on the left shouldn't about how bad spending cuts are. Guess what, just like my grandparents did in the 50s, we gotta increase taxes and cut spending, plain and simple.