Our next president might not have an Energy Czar - Page 3

Xringer · 11-02-10, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clev

There's no reason to subsidize big oil; they're making money hand over fist--even in the worst economic conditions since the Great Depression. And that doesn't count the hundreds of billions we spend stationing our military in sh*tholes to protect the pipeline.

Unfortunately, we've been robbing social security to pay for massive military programs and corporate welfare for decades, all the while giving the rich increasingly massive tax cuts. Now those same baby boomers are suddenly deciding that they're "taxed enough already"... but don't you dare touch the military, space program, Medicare or Social Security!

I think one of the BIG problems with the gov, is once a Handout program starts,
30 years later, no one has figured out it should be stopped..
It's because they just don't care where the money is going.
We also need to cut areas of the military that seem to be wasting fuel.
We don't need HummVees that only get 1MPG..

The space program spend peanuts.. We should keep it going,
and discontinue the Muslim out-reach mandate..

Medicare can be cleaned up. Things like the prices of meds can be controlled better.
There no reason my insurance should be paying $100 for 90 pills that Walmart is selling for $10
http://i.walmartimages.com/i/if/hmp/...meDelivery.pdf
If Walmart is making a profit, these other companies are making a killing..

When (if?) my insurance plan is trashed by Obama care, I hope Walmart will still be there for us.

Plus, do we really need to be giving Viagra to 90 year old men?

What's that going to cost over the next 10 or 20 years?

Social Security needs to be stopped. It's a pyramid scam. Stop anyone
else from being forced to enroll in SS, ASAP. Pass a law against it.
Increase the retirement age for those already sucked into it.
If anyone wants to opt out right now, they should be able to.
If you are 20 or 30 years old, you should not be on SS.
You will never get a dime of your money back.

I think paying off the remaining old folks (me included) is a good idea.
My Mom (86) needs to pay her bills..

But, if someone has retirement income that is 10 times their SS check,
do we really need to pay them? (Unless they fall on hard times?).

Daox · 11-02-10, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xringer

Social Security needs to be stopped. It's a pyramid scam. Stop anyone
else from being forced to enroll in SS, ASAP. Pass a law against it.
Increase the retirement age for those already sucked into it.
If anyone wants to opt out right now, they should be able to.
If you are 20 or 30 years old, you should not be on SS.
You will never get a dime of your money back.

I'd love that... No offense to others, but I don't want to have to pay just because others don't know how to save money.

Ryland · 11-02-10, 06:38 PM

The incentives that are out there right now that I have taken advantage of should save me a few hundred dollars per year, money that instead of burning I'll spend in other areas, the pay back on the improvements I've made to my house have a return on investment of 4 years or so, sure they are things that I would have done anyway but they were not planed, things like an energy audit and blower door test was not planed at all and has made my money go farther.

People that I know have gotten solar electric systems installed on their homes around here are not rich, sure they make more then my part time job pays me... at least a few of them have better jobs, but most of them live simple lives, one is a potter, another owns a business and rides his bike to work, the people that are installing these systems are doing ok, but they are not rich either, however these systems are investments that will again, allow these people to spend their money in other areas, forever, instead of spending it on fuel that is burnt.

Xringer · 11-02-10, 10:02 PM

I'm all for going PV. I had solar hot water panels on my roof back in the early 80s.
But, I can't sell the PV idea to my wife, based on anything like pay-back in my life time.
She just doesn't like the looks of PV.
Of course, she didn't like the looks of the Sanyo when we installed it.. But loves it now.

One thing that didn't help, was my tracker project. I got some really ugly
looking PV on that deal. She thinks they are anyways. I like them.
Yesterday, when it was cold out, I saw 507 watts into the load..

TimJFowler · 11-03-10, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xringer

I can almost understand keeping 'big' oil going. Our military runs on oil. And a lot of our industry would be in trouble if American oil companies all went broke..

Why would we be subsidizing coal? That sounds a little crazy. You dig it out of the ground and sell it..
Why do they need taxpayer's money to do that??

World-wide Energy Subsidies in 2008:
Fossil Fuel Subsidies Are 12 Times Support for Renewables, Study Shows - Bloomberg

"Governments last year gave $43 billion to $46 billion of support to renewable energy through tax credits, guaranteed electricity prices known as feed-in tariffs and alternative energy credits, the London-based research group said today in a statement. That compares with the $557 billion that the International Energy Agency last month said was spent to subsidize fossil fuels in 2008."

U.S. Energy Subsidies from 2002 - 2008:
Infographic of the Week: Federal Subsidies ? Fossil Fuels vs. Renewable Energy – Rick Muñoz

Fossil fuels (left) garner far greater subsidies than renewables, to the tune of $72 billion over the study period ('02-08).
Renewable fuels, meanwhile, saw just $29 billion (including 16.8 million to corn ethanol) over the same period.

FYI,
Tim

Xringer · 11-03-10, 01:01 PM

"Fossil fuels subsidies are permanent provisions in the U.S. Tax Code. "???

WTH? I think maybe we've spotted something ripe for tweaking..
Time to pick that close-to-the-ground fruit..

If not, why???

TimJFowler · 11-04-10, 05:38 PM

Oil and Gas Contributions Still Rising in 2010, Republicans Receiving Bulk of Industry Cash - OpenSecrets Blog | OpenSecrets

"congressional candidates and federal political committees nationwide have raked in more than $17 million from the oil and gas industry so far during the 2010 election cycle -- a number on pace to easily exceed that of the most recent midterm election four years ago."

Xringer · 11-04-10, 06:32 PM

It sure looks like we need to get out of the Subsidies business..

Is there any justification for giving taxpayers money to these giant businesses?

Even if if you only own a small coal mine or a single oil well, why the hell do you need my money??

Clev · 11-05-10, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xringer

Even if if you only own a small coal mine or a single oil well, why the hell do you need my money??

Exactly. It's not like you're trying to compete with $0.30/pound cotton from Brazil here.

Xringer · 11-05-10, 07:01 PM

Oil has been competitive since day one. Overseas oil producers once put US companies
out of business, by lowering their prices..

Sorta like Toyota selling cheap cars and trucks in the USA, to capture the market.

Back in the 80s, Japanese visitors being driven around in our old Corolla always
asked what I paid for it. They were astonished to find we got them 20% cheaper here.

Competition is good, because it weeds out the companies who over-price
their products and skimp on quality.

Yeah we bailed out the banks and they gave Barney Frank money so
he could stay in office. Of course GM gave a ton of cash to those nice
folks who bailed them out..
Really, GM gave our money to Democrats? To get them re-elected?
That's really adding insult to injury..

11-04-10, 05:38 PM	#27
TimJFowler Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Santa Fe, NM Posts: 184 Thanks: 9 Thanked 12 Times in 11 Posts	Oil and Gas Contributions Still Rising in 2010, Republicans Receiving Bulk of Industry Cash - OpenSecrets Blog \| OpenSecrets "congressional candidates and federal political committees nationwide have raked in more than $17 million from the oil and gas industry so far during the 2010 election cycle -- a number on pace to easily exceed that of the most recent midterm election four years ago." __________________ - DIY Adventures in Applied Sustainability - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

11-02-10, 06:38 PM	#23
Ryland Master EcoRenovator Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Western Wisconsin. Posts: 913 Thanks: 127 Thanked 82 Times in 71 Posts	The incentives that are out there right now that I have taken advantage of should save me a few hundred dollars per year, money that instead of burning I'll spend in other areas, the pay back on the improvements I've made to my house have a return on investment of 4 years or so, sure they are things that I would have done anyway but they were not planed, things like an energy audit and blower door test was not planed at all and has made my money go farther. People that I know have gotten solar electric systems installed on their homes around here are not rich, sure they make more then my part time job pays me... at least a few of them have better jobs, but most of them live simple lives, one is a potter, another owns a business and rides his bike to work, the people that are installing these systems are doing ok, but they are not rich either, however these systems are investments that will again, allow these people to spend their money in other areas, forever, instead of spending it on fuel that is burnt.

11-02-10, 10:02 PM	#24
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	I'm all for going PV. I had solar hot water panels on my roof back in the early 80s. But, I can't sell the PV idea to my wife, based on anything like pay-back in my life time. She just doesn't like the looks of PV. Of course, she didn't like the looks of the Sanyo when we installed it.. But loves it now. One thing that didn't help, was my tracker project. I got some really ugly looking PV on that deal. She thinks they are anyways. I like them. Yesterday, when it was cold out, I saw 507 watts into the load..

11-03-10, 01:01 PM	#26
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	"Fossil fuels subsidies are permanent provisions in the U.S. Tax Code. "??? WTH? I think maybe we've spotted something ripe for tweaking.. Time to pick that close-to-the-ground fruit.. If not, why???

11-04-10, 06:32 PM	#28
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	It sure looks like we need to get out of the Subsidies business.. Is there any justification for giving taxpayers money to these giant businesses? Even if if you only own a small coal mine or a single oil well, why the hell do you need my money??

11-05-10, 07:01 PM	#30
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	Oil has been competitive since day one. Overseas oil producers once put US companies out of business, by lowering their prices.. Sorta like Toyota selling cheap cars and trucks in the USA, to capture the market. Back in the 80s, Japanese visitors being driven around in our old Corolla always asked what I paid for it. They were astonished to find we got them 20% cheaper here. Competition is good, because it weeds out the companies who over-price their products and skimp on quality. Yeah we bailed out the banks and they gave Barney Frank money so he could stay in office. Of course GM gave a ton of cash to those nice folks who bailed them out.. Really, GM gave our money to Democrats? To get them re-elected? That's really adding insult to injury..