Mini split - HVAC tools not needed

[Vern2]

Xringer,

Your here, Cool.

I'm basically looking at ease of install, and cost. With just wife and I, we built our home our self. Then with a stroke, future projects are a little harder with one arm. Yes, my thoughts of loosing R401a from that connection are the same as yours.



Friedrich does not even mention the shreader valves, maybe their are none.

Between the two, Friedrich and Ideal, Ideal is winning.

I have continuous shelves from air handler to where, I'm wall mounting condenser. At back of shelf, I can tapper line set and condensate drain to hole going through wall and down to outside unit. See shop drawing locations of inside and outside unit locations. Outside unit is under 4' over hang area of patio in the shade. Air handler location will be adjusted for 15' line set to reach condenser unit.

[Xringer]

I have to admit, the Friedrich Breeze looked pretty nice.. Easy to install too. SEERs is not bad either!

How to install Friedrich Breeze through the Wall - YouTube

[Mikesolar]

I am sorry but....why do we keep going down this road of cheap, cheap, cheap being the the only consideration. We were sold on this and it isn't true. My fridgie friends in Europe are always getting calls from people who bought the chinese stuff and then can't get parts or service for them.

I am shaking my head......

Make a friend, borrow a vac pump

[Vern2]

Mikesolar,

Don't forget this thread is about saving a dollar, then we report what works.

1)Are you drawing the line, don't buy chinese.

2) buying tools.
3) needing a HVAC tech.
4) cheap design.

I've got my solar in place for my immediate needs. Have plans for another 2.5k this year, hopping to be spending more time in home garage shop.

The Friedrich Breeze seem's to be a slick unit. I agree, It's not the right unit in all cases.

I read a post that said these units are through away. If I had to depend on one for my main home heating / cooling I would not do it. My 5 ton unit has been going for 15 years and I can see 5 more easy. I'm not making an investment in tools. It's just a test unit for the shop. If it fails so what. I'll report it here... Then go to plan B.

[WyrTwister]

Originally Posted by Vern2

Mikesolar,

Don't forget this thread is about saving a dollar, then we report what works.

1)Are you drawing the line, don't buy chinese.

2) buying tools.
3) needing a HVAC tech.
4) cheap design.

I've got my solar in place for my immediate needs. Have plans for another 2.5k this year, hopping to be spending more time in home garage shop.

The Friedrich Breeze seem's to be a slick unit. I agree, It's not the right unit in all cases.

I read a post that said these units are through away. If I had to depend on one for my main home heating / cooling I would not do it. My 5 ton unit has been going for 15 years and I can see 5 more easy. I'm not making an investment in tools. It's just a test unit for the shop. If it fails so what. I'll report it here... Then go to plan B.

I looked at the info on the plug in line sets . A lot of this depends on the skill level of the home owner . And the cost of the tooling you have to buy ( the more tooling you have already , the lower the cost for the rest you will need ) .

In my case , I already had a lot of the tooling . So the cost of the rest of the tooling was not prohibitive . I did end up needing to buy a jug of R410a , due to a leak caused by my own dumb mistake . But that cost less than $ 75 and I have almost all of the R410a left .

I expected the install to be at about the limit of my skill level . This proved to be true . Repeat , I made a dumb mistake causing a leak .

I was not sure how a mini-split would turn out ? With only a few months of use , I still do not know , long term ?

Being uncertain , I went for low cost , low SEER ( 13 ) . This may have been a mistake . I think , maybe , if I had purchased a higher SEER unit , I may have gotten a federal subsidy ?

So , from a strictly cost point of view , it seems to me , you have a choice to make . The " standard " units with flare nut fittings . This will require greater amounts of tooling = $$$ . And some what greater skills needed .

The " quick disconnect " systems with pre-charged lines . Less tooling costs , but higher purchase price . And some what lower skill level needed .

I went with the " standard " units with flare nuts . I am not 100 % comfortable with the flare nut method , but my gut feeling leads me to believe the " quick disconnect " line sets may be more prone to leaks . But I have no evidence of that .

I installed our mini-split to cool our living room / dining room . A 12,000 BTU system , it did that fine , past 100 degree F days , this summer . I had intended to purchase a 9,000 BTU unit , but the 12,000 BTU unit was what I found in stock locally . And at a close out price .

I am glad I have the larger unit . We have window units in 4 rooms , so we can zone our cooling to fit our needs . But not the living room / dining room . No exterior wall space to put one , due to most of the wall being taken up by door and tall windows . The mini split fan coil unit ended up over the door . Not the ideal location , but the best we could do .

We also have a conventional 4 ton split 13 Seer A/C that is about 10 - 15 years old . It was down at the time and at the time , I could not service it . ( I since have been able to service it . )

That was another reason behind trying a mini split . To cool the living room and dining room , until I could get the 4 ton A/C unit up and going again . I have since been able to service it . Since then , I have run the central system very little .

Another benefit of the mini split , I greatly appreciate , it is much quitter than the central A/C , which is located in a closet adjacent to the living room . My wife's co-co clock makes more noise that the mini split . :-)

I think that is a wonderful improvement , especially when watching TV . :-)

Best of luck , :-)
God bless
Wyr

PS When the 4 ton unit finally gives up the gost , the replacement will probably be a R410a unit . So , I will have a reserve of refrigerant for it . So that cost is potentially not money down a rat hole .

[Vern2]

WyrTwister,

Working on 2.5k solar add now, before I add 12k mini split for shop. Really like zero electric bills to continue. Have another reason to add solar, I stopped adjusting solar panel tilt, to much work. The cost of tools match increase cost of unit, so no loss of money there. Mixed concrete, finished footings this morning for solar add, next is placing 30' 250 lb beam.

Vern

[WyrTwister]

Originally Posted by Vern2

WyrTwister,

Working on 2.5k solar add now, before I add 12k mini split for shop. Really like zero electric bills to continue. Have another reason to add solar, I stopped adjusting solar panel tilt, to much work. The cost of tools match increase cost of unit, so no loss of money there. Mixed concrete, finished footings this morning for solar add, next is placing 30' 250 lb beam.

Vern

I am guessing you have batteries and an inverter ?

Best of luck and be safe . :-)

God bless
Wyr

[Vern2]

Wyr,

"I am guessing you have batteries and an inverter?"

No batteries, using grid as batteries, not a Prepper, Hippie or Red neck, just good old boy.

[WyrTwister]

Originally Posted by Vern2

Wyr,

"I am guessing you have batteries and an inverter?"

No batteries, using grid as batteries, not a Prepper, Hippie or Red neck, just good old boy.

So , your excess power is flowing back into the grid ?

God bless
Wyr

[WyrTwister]

Originally Posted by Vern2

WyrTwister,

The cost of tools match increase cost of unit, so no loss of money there.

Vern

That is the way I figured it .

You can pay more for a mini split with the quick disconnect / pre-charged lines . And less on tools and require less as far as your skill set .

Or pay less for the mini split . Pay more for tools and require a greater skill set .

You pay one way or you pay the other way .

I had most of the tooling and thought I has a sufficient skill set . Although I figured I would be pushing the edge of my expertise .

I had the vacuum pump , gauges , hoses , flare tool , Nylog Blue , etc. . I bought a 3/8" drive torque wrench , metric " crows feet " , and metric " flare nut " wrenches / tubing wrenches .

My mini split did not come with a line set . I bought the 2 sizes of copper tubing in 50' rolls and insulation for the lines , at the same distributor where I bought the unit . That was pretty pricy ! :-(

But I am familiar with the high price of copper .

They gave me a good price on everything . I compared the copper price to several other places .

I have most of the copper left over , since I made my line set ~ 15' long . However , I later found shorter rolls of the copper , at Sutherland's . Not cheaper per foot , but would have been cheaper per roll . And cheaper per foot than Granger , Lowes & Home Depot .

I used some black rubber heater hose for most of my condensate drain line .

Already had the Romex for power . Scrounged the 18 / 4 cable that goes from the inside unit to the outside unit . And the disconnect switch & liquid tite flex .

MiniSplitCondensor07-08-2013_zpsa38b4412.jpg Photo by WyrTwister | Photobucket

MiniSplitCondensor07-04-2013_zpsf9e505bb.jpg Photo by WyrTwister | Photobucket

MiniSplitFanCoilUnit07-04-2013_zps6c53a51c.jpg Photo by WyrTwister | Photobucket

MiniSplitCondensor07-06-2013_zpsa0beb97f.jpg Photo by WyrTwister | Photobucket

I had planed it with the recommended max length of line set , that would not require adding additional refrigerant . The plan was to vacuum down the system & then open the service valves on the out door unit , releasing the refrigerant inside the compressor , to fill the system .

That worked fine , even though I lost a little refrigerant , disconnecting the hose to the gauges .

But a few days latter , I went to finish insulating the copper lines , the rest of the way, to and including , the service valves . I moved the little 1/4" high pressure line . This caused a leak at the flare nut to service valve connection . Ended up loosing almost the R410a in the system .

I found it before I lost all pressure & closed off the service valves . So I ended up having to purchase a jug of R410a , vacuuming the system back down and re-charging the system .

This was caused by my dumb mistake . But it turned into another learning experience .

Best of luck .

Wyr
God bless

PS I would have bought a factory line set , if I could have found one , locally , at the time .