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Old 01-30-14, 06:21 PM   #181
where2
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It seems to me that someone is trying to limit installs but as prices of systems and the ease of installations drops along with the rising cost of energy solar installs won't go away any time in the near future.

Alternate energy is the only long term viable future.
As someone sitting on the other side of the planet this week (next to the South China Sea), I can honestly say we (in America) are behind in our adoption rate for alternative energy and LEDs.

I agree with Rob that the corporate monopolies that run our US utilities seem to be turning from ignoring renewables and renewable generators to making it a challenge to install or use renewables in an average home. As more people swap from liquid fueled vehicles to plug-ins, I only see electric demand increasing at a time when global demand for all combustible fuels is increasing. Without alternatives, we will be left holding the short straw.

I haven't rolled one kWh over from month to month on my net metering plan in the last 6 months my PV system has been online. My 4400W system takes up every bit of roof my little 1800sqft house had available facing south. As a result, my power bill hasn't gone down to the bare minimum, it's simply been reduced to a manageable amount. Tinkering with net metering rates would really hurt with a system like mine where it was never intended to cover all my electric needs. I went with PV because it was faster to install PV than replace every system in my 50 year old house to reduce my energy needs.

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Old 01-30-14, 06:55 PM   #182
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Where2,
I think the wild card is going to be technology. Look at the technology of PV systems, which is a relatively new industry competing with a 100 year old one, fossil fuels. I remember 15 years ago, modified sine inverters were the only ones most of us could afford. Now we're all running pure sine with elite charge algorithms.

Germany is now selling power to France with France's aging nuclear industry that is starting to cost them dearly in maintenance and upkeep. The last modules I put in cost a fraction of the ones I put in 8 or so years ago. Installs are getting cheaper and cheaper. All of a sudden solar is a threat and again, it's an relatively new industry.

It's similar to the technology of sat. dishes. How many of you remember when they had 10 foot diameters? Now they sit on the side of your house. Electronics is changing the world and you can only extract so much oil out of the ground. Guess when the last big oil find was? The year we went to the moon, 1969!

In 2005 OPEC decide that a country can only sell oil quantities equal to their reserves. All of a sudden everyone's oil reserves doubled and tripled, you can check the charts. the thing is no one had any more oil then they had before 2005.
Now factor in the cost of wars to protect corporate oil interests and oil costs can't even come close to solar. It's only a matter of time before the millions of dollars that oil companies put into lobbying loses its effect. Oil is like a guy who just stopped running, his legs are still moving but he's not going very far.

What we're seeing right now with energy providers threatened by us small potatoes is just the tip of the iceberg. By the way this has happen before in history. When whale oil became to expensive we started using kerosene.

The world is looking at Germany, Portugal with a 52% leap in PV, and of course China. They are proving that PV is the solution.

Sorry for the long post.
Rob
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Old 01-31-14, 12:24 PM   #183
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I don't know about everyone else but my power distribution company (power generated by TVA) charges a monthly hookup fee of $8, just like natural gas. This is probably just to combat rising costs in other areas "without raising electric rates," but they may be trying to make more money off users who generate their own power.

Right now, TVA is encouraging people to generate their own power by offering better prices per KW they one would pay. This is because it is so expensive to start up the coal fire plants we still have around in the South.
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Old 01-31-14, 12:32 PM   #184
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Duke power has a $8.29 meter charge that we cannot off set.
We also have a power bill with Blue Ridge Electric Cooperative their meter charge is $27.
This is very high I bet it is to discourage solar power.



This Jan turned out to be a good solar month we made 1.36 MWH power.
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Old 01-31-14, 08:26 PM   #185
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My electric bill in South Florida includes $7.25 in meter charges if you don't use one kWh. I've got a spreadsheet where I track my electric bill based on my meter readings, and it doesn't stay at $7.25 very long. I'm still trying to perfect my formulas on how some of the local taxes are calculated (some appear to be non-linear)

I continue to hope that my electric utility doesn't become like my water/sewer utility where the base billing charge to have a meter is ~$45.

1.36MWh is a good month! Wow!
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Old 01-31-14, 09:48 PM   #186
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Raising the base charge concerns me greatly. This last time the our electric went up a certain percent but the base rate went up a much higher percent. Since I am getting closer to netzero the base rate going up would really mess that up.
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Old 02-01-14, 08:44 AM   #187
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Raising the base charge concerns me greatly. This last time the our electric went up a certain percent but the base rate went up a much higher percent. Since I am getting closer to netzero the base rate going up would really mess that up.
Wow indeed those are impressive figures!

Guys this is exactly what I'm talking about - Corporate control -. We buy our food, our water, our electricity and our fuel from a very small group of individuals. When that happens you are at their mercy. Sure PV is a threat, they want to find a way to diminish that threat as much as possible. If they control the electricity then they can raise prices to whatever they want.
What do you think fracking is all about? It's about another industry that wants to develop a dependency. They come in low, get people hooked and then they are at the liberty to dictate what they want. And this money is going to the hands of a very few people. It spirals up, the more money they make the more lobby control they have. The API (American Petroleum Institute) spend millions in propaganda and lobbies to maintain their hold. Electric cars are their nightmare!

The Walmart family alone has the equivalent wealth of the lower 40% of the US population. That equates to tremendous control of the masses. what do you think the monopoly laws, that are now pretty much ineffective were about? Stopping this very kind of activity.

What these controlling corporations are afraid of is individual power autonomy, each home creating its own energy, and that is coming. When we can make as much power as we are that autonomy is not far away.

With Rooftop Solar on Rise, U.S. Utilities Are Striking Back by Marc Gunther: Yale Environment 360

Rob

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Old 02-01-14, 12:39 PM   #188
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I'm in accord with the basic ideas you are stating. There are several things to mention about the specific example of regulated power utilities. Even though they supply a service to almost every single person in every developed country they still exist as profit centers for shareholders. This may have to change as solar develops, especially photo voltaic.

The problem is that power utilities will always be necessary as long as solar PV is primarily part of a grid tied distributed network. A distributed network of electrical power will always need a command and control network to move power where and when it is needed. This is regardless of whether the electric utility actually provides the power. At some point a critical mass will develop of residential and commercial solar that impacts utilities' ability to provide an income source to shareholders as they provide less and less of the actual power. That is just a fact that we can look into the future and see if one is not blinded by greed to milk a cow that is so weak it can't even stand up.

The answer is not to milk the individual and commercial entities that will eventually replace utilities as producers of powers for their own needs. That's insane. It seems to me that eventually utilities will have to be stripped of their requirement to be a profit center and be treated just like any entity that serves the whole population. The department of transportation will be a better metaphor for what electric utilities are likely to become in the future. It is publicly funded by our tax dollars and we all partake in service they provide, like roads and traffic lights. No one expects them to make a profit because they just provide the infrastructure, not the actual trains, planes, and automobiles that get us from one place to another.

Right now the electric utilities are providing the equivalent of trains, planes, and automobiles, along with the roads, highways, and traffic signals. But how much longer will that be? During this transition phase the vast majority of the population will continue to use the integrated service electric utilities now provide and they should pay for it. But the government should start the transition to a non-profit making, service providing model that will eventually just be an infrastructure provider and not a service provider. If we don't plan ahead for that day this will turn into an awful mess. Sorry for the long comment.
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Old 02-01-14, 03:36 PM   #189
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You do realize even now the cow power company only allows for 1% – 3% solar on each line.
In HI some people can’t get solar power because most of houses around them have solar. With the rules in place the cow will always be fat and happy.
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Old 02-01-14, 03:44 PM   #190
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In HI some people can’t get solar power because most of houses around them have solar. With the rules in place the cow will always be fat and happy.
What did you think I was advocating?

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