Remodeling the office (new floor, ceiling & adding insulation) passive house retrofit - Page 15

Mikesolar · 09-29-13, 09:38 PM

Doax, google "Alberta Custom Tee". It is a much less expensive manifold that you can customize for 2-24 loops, 1" header and 1/2" outputs (we call them spigots). Add a mini ball valve to each spigot and you have a less expensive balancing manifold.

I really would suggest going with 1/2" barrier tubing. There are more fittings available in more places. Also, with 3/8" you will want to limit yourself to 200' lengths MAX. Don't worry about making a 4" bend. It can be 6-8" then come in to make 4" runs.

Daox · 09-30-13, 10:23 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I would be limited to 200' max if I were using a single loop, but since I will be running parallel loops that will drop the pressure head substantially.

At least for this room, the 3/8" tubing allows me to get 1/4" of foam board under the tubing to stop some thermal bridging. If I go up to 1/2", there won't be enough room to get any insulation under there. However, I will be putting fiberglass in the joist cavity under the floor.

Mikesolar · 09-30-13, 10:29 AM

yes, 200' is a single loop length. any number in parallel only increases the flow rate needed, not the head loss so you are good.

i still think that the 1/2" tubing and no 1/4" foam is better since you will be insulating between the joists anyway. The wood may be just as good an insulator as the foam, given the thickness.

Daox · 10-01-13, 12:23 PM

Here are some updated pics. The drywall lift is really a life saver. There is no way I could have done this alone without it. With it, its a breeze.

I can't wait to get some nice LEDs in there!

AC_Hacker · 10-01-13, 01:20 PM

I came across this today...

https://www.midwestrenew.org/downloa...egenthaler.pdf

It's a Siegenthaler presentation regarding hydronic heating and it addresses solar hydronic, too.

Also this...

http://www.hydronicpros.com/_dynamo/...d.php?docid=12

Probably a little late in the game, but it's something to think about.

BTW, did you ever do any kind of heat loss analysis on your remodel?

-AC

Daox · 10-01-13, 02:01 PM

Very interesting pdfs. Thank you for sharing.

I've always wondered... but this quote was some awesome info. He is talking about wall radiators.

Quote:

Adding low wattage fans to a low water content panel can boost heat output 50% during normal comfort mode, and over 200% during recovery from setback conditions

Another interesting thing was his picture of the aluminum heat spreaders says to only staple one side of the heat spreader, not both. This is to allow for expansion with the heat cycling.

I've also never heard of the Xylem (B&G) ECOCIRC pump. Its similar to the Grundfos Alpha and Wilo ECORFC, with variable speed and pressure differential features. Its always nice to have another option.

I do not have a heat loss analysis on the renovated wall.

Daox · 10-16-13, 12:02 PM

The work has been progressing on the office. It has been taped and mudded and sanded... fun stuff. I still have to frame out the little in wall entertainment cabinet and put drywall over that. Above that I also have to blend the drywall into some plaster which should be interesting.

Anyway, here are some pics:

AC_Hacker · 10-16-13, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daox

The work has been progressing on the office...

Nice progress!

I really like the flared window openings.

I did that on some of my skylights (once I learned that it could be done).

It really lets in a lot more light, at no extra heat-loss penalty... good thinking.

My back room remodel is progressing, I'm in the wiring stage now...

It is so curious... in 1892, there was no concept of insulation or infiltration. So some of the structural decisions that were made just take my breath away.

I have learned so much from the discussions and reported and photographed works of the regulars here. I just don't know how I ever got by before.

I have a friend who is just now doing a total tear-out and remodel of his house. I have told him all about the approaches and techniques we are using here at ER... Sadly, he has decided to go with minimal insulation & sealing and with an 80% gas furnace, because "it is cheaper". I guess it's the "...lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink" kind of thing.

You're doing it right, keep up the good work.

Best,

-AC

MN Renovator · 10-16-13, 07:24 PM

I've always wondered, how do you remove the window bladders without letting all the gas out of the panes?

Daox · 10-17-13, 08:33 AM

The instructions say to crimp the capillary tube twice, then cut it and put some sealant over the tip. Then you tuck it under the rubber seal around the window. I really need to do that... haha.

09-30-13, 10:23 AM	#142
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	Correct me if I'm wrong, but I would be limited to 200' max if I were using a single loop, but since I will be running parallel loops that will drop the pressure head substantially. At least for this room, the 3/8" tubing allows me to get 1/4" of foam board under the tubing to stop some thermal bridging. If I go up to 1/2", there won't be enough room to get any insulation under there. However, I will be putting fiberglass in the joist cavity under the floor. __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

10-01-13, 12:23 PM	#144
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	Here are some updated pics. The drywall lift is really a life saver. There is no way I could have done this alone without it. With it, its a breeze. I can't wait to get some nice LEDs in there! Attached Thumbnails __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

10-01-13, 01:20 PM	#145
AC_Hacker Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 4,004 Thanks: 303 Thanked 724 Times in 534 Posts	I came across this today... https://www.midwestrenew.org/downloa...egenthaler.pdf It's a Siegenthaler presentation regarding hydronic heating and it addresses solar hydronic, too. Also this... http://www.hydronicpros.com/_dynamo/...d.php?docid=12 Probably a little late in the game, but it's something to think about. BTW, did you ever do any kind of heat loss analysis on your remodel? -AC __________________ I'm not an HVAC technician. In fact, I'm barely even a hacker... Last edited by AC_Hacker; 10-01-13 at 01:24 PM..

10-16-13, 12:02 PM	#147
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	The work has been progressing on the office. It has been taped and mudded and sanded... fun stuff. I still have to frame out the little in wall entertainment cabinet and put drywall over that. Above that I also have to blend the drywall into some plaster which should be interesting. Anyway, here are some pics: Attached Thumbnails __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

10-17-13, 08:33 AM	#150
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	The instructions say to crimp the capillary tube twice, then cut it and put some sealant over the tip. Then you tuck it under the rubber seal around the window. I really need to do that... haha. __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Last edited by Daox; 10-29-13 at 10:22 AM..

09-29-13, 09:38 PM	#141
Mikesolar Master EcoRenovator Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Toronto Posts: 958 Thanks: 40 Thanked 158 Times in 150 Posts	Doax, google "Alberta Custom Tee". It is a much less expensive manifold that you can customize for 2-24 loops, 1" header and 1/2" outputs (we call them spigots). Add a mini ball valve to each spigot and you have a less expensive balancing manifold. I really would suggest going with 1/2" barrier tubing. There are more fittings available in more places. Also, with 3/8" you will want to limit yourself to 200' lengths MAX. Don't worry about making a 4" bend. It can be 6-8" then come in to make 4" runs.

09-30-13, 10:29 AM	#143
Mikesolar Master EcoRenovator Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Toronto Posts: 958 Thanks: 40 Thanked 158 Times in 150 Posts	yes, 200' is a single loop length. any number in parallel only increases the flow rate needed, not the head loss so you are good. i still think that the 1/2" tubing and no 1/4" foam is better since you will be insulating between the joists anyway. The wood may be just as good an insulator as the foam, given the thickness.

10-16-13, 07:24 PM	#149
MN Renovator Less usage=Cheaper bills Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 940 Thanks: 41 Thanked 117 Times in 91 Posts	I've always wondered, how do you remove the window bladders without letting all the gas out of the panes?