My winterization plans.

RobertSmalls · 09-28-09, 11:08 PM

It's a little cold and very windy in Buffalo today, and that got me thinking about the coming heating season. My plan for winterizing is fourfold. One, reduce the amount of space I will condition. Two, stop the house from leaking appreciable air. Three, inspect the attic and decide what to do up there. Four, set the thermostat lower.

I rent the upper apartment in an 80 year old double. The downstairs tennants aren't very frugal, and they kindly provide me with a small amount of free radiant floor heating. I'm hoping to last until the snow starts falling without turning on the furnace.

Since I might not live here next year, any improvements I make must either pay for themselves in a season, or must make a lasting improvement that future tennants will leave in place.

My 700 ft² home is larger than I need. I've set up a dining room table in the kitchen, and couches in the dining room. That leaves me free to seal off the living room and the second bedroom, bringing me down to 440ft² of living space, plus 160ft² of unconditioned storage space.

There's a 4'x7' archway leading into the living room. I think I'll just tack up a 4'x8' sheet of foil-backed foam board, or something with a good R-value, over the archway. Then I need to find a poster or large map or something to hide it. For sealing off the spare bedroom, I don't need to do anything more elaborate than sealing the heating duct with window plastic, closing the door, and laying a rug against the bottom of the doorway. I'll record temperatures inside and outside the room once furnace season starts.

My windows are old and leak badly, so I'll put plastic over all of them, then try to depressurize the house to find smaller leaks. Hopefully, this will be a relatively small job, since I don't plan to do the basement, leaks from the lower apartment are welcome, and I don't know of any wires or pipes that enter the attic.

The third prong of the plan is to inspect the attic and see what's what. Nobody's been up there for years, so I expect it to be an unclean, unhealthy place to be. If it's uninsulated, will it be worthwhile to lay down fiberglass? How thick?

Finally, lowering the thermostat. There's more to it than just turning down the heat. I plan to learn to live with as low of temperatures as possible. Last year we had the thermostat set to 62°F. This year, maybe I'll try an electric matress pad and 60°F at night. Eliminating drafts will permit lower temperatures, too.

I wonder how much energy I'd save by turning the furnace off for eight hours when I go to work. I have a few simple mods in mind for a two-wire thermostat, and maybe I'll try some of them out.

As far as a timetable, I'll inspect the attic this weekend, but the rest will have to wait until the windows are closed for the season.

So there's the plan for this winter. Did I overlook anything important?

Christ · 09-28-09, 11:46 PM

If you cover the arch way on each side, you'll trap air in there, which is a better insulator than foam alone.

Looks like a good plan, though.

You could consider a portable IR heater, which only heats whatever the IR is pointed at, to keep you warm while you're sitting in your favorite chair doing whatever.... point it at yourself, and you can mostly forsake the rest of the apartment temps wise, because you'll stay warm. Wear dark clothing, it will absorb more of the IR and you can keep warmer with less energy use.

Try to live away from the windows as much as possible, unless you absolutely have to have the sunlight.

If you want to try a fairly simple experiment, and you have available sunlight during part of the day, hang a coiled up 50 foot garden hose full of water out your window, and run the inlet and outlet of the hose to a small radiator with a fan behind it. It's a quick and dirty solar thermal heater, no pump required.

Neighbors might whine about that one, though.

Daox · 09-30-09, 02:01 PM

Sounds like a great plan to me Robert.

I'd only emphasize that sealing will probably give you the best (by far) bang for your buck. Air infiltration is especially bad in older buildings.

RobertSmalls · 10-01-09, 05:13 PM

Speaking of air infiltration, I have a few indoor/outdoor thermometers, and I'm showing it's four degrees colder on my leaky windowsill than on my desk, three feet away.

I priced out fiberglass insulation for the attic. To do the entire 800ft² attic, it would cost $725 for R38, $582 for R30, $348 for R13.

Fortunately, someone already took care of that. There is 6" deep of loose fiberglass insulation between the rafters. Whoever insulated the attic saw fit to staple fiberglass to the attic access door. They overlooked gasketing the door, so I'll do that to keep my outside stairway a little warmer.

I've found that no matter how much I bundle up, below a certain temperature, my hands get too cold to comfortably use a pencil or keyboard, and gloves are too cumbersome. I like the idea of an IR lamp, but the only ones I've ever seen are for cooking.

Someone should make an oversized keyboard for gloved fingers.

Daox · 10-01-09, 06:52 PM

Yep, fiberglass insulation is expensive and not even as good as cellulose when it comes to real cold temperatures. Thats why I went with it, I got ~R40 for $300 in my ~700 sq ft attic.

You could probably use a small space heater like Brian did here.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/projec...kitchen-2.html

Christ · 10-01-09, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertSmalls

Speaking of air infiltration, I have a few indoor/outdoor thermometers, and I'm showing it's four degrees colder on my leaky windowsill than on my desk, three feet away.

I priced out fiberglass insulation for the attic. To do the entire 800ft² attic, it would cost $725 for R38, $582 for R30, $348 for R13.

Fortunately, someone already took care of that. There is 6" deep of loose fiberglass insulation between the rafters. Whoever insulated the attic saw fit to staple fiberglass to the attic access door. They overlooked gasketing the door, so I'll do that to keep my outside stairway a little warmer.

I've found that no matter how much I bundle up, below a certain temperature, my hands get too cold to comfortably use a pencil or keyboard, and gloves are too cumbersome. I like the idea of an IR lamp, but the only ones I've ever seen are for cooking.

Someone should make an oversized keyboard for gloved fingers.

Big Keyboard.

TimJFowler · 10-02-09, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertSmalls

My windows are old and leak badly, so I'll put plastic over all of them

Definitely do this! The plastic window seal kits are cheap and can make a large difference in how warm your place is. Installing a window sealing kit made a cold and drafty office MUCH more comfortable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertSmalls

I wonder how much energy I'd save by turning the furnace off for eight hours when I go to work. I have a few simple mods in mind for a two-wire thermostat, and maybe I'll try some of them out.

Maybe you can install an inexpensive programmable thermostat? That way you can turn down the thermostat while you are at work and at night when you are asleep without continually fiddling with the dial.

FWIW,
Tim

Christ · 10-02-09, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimJFowler

Definitely do this! The plastic window seal kits are cheap and can make a large difference in how warm your place is. Installing a window sealing kit made a cold and drafty office MUCH more comfortable.

Maybe you can install an inexpensive programmable thermostat? That way you can turn down the thermostat while you are at work and at night when you are asleep without continually fiddling with the dial.

FWIW,
Tim

You might also look into the type of thermostat that allows a much larger temperature gradient before it turns on the heater.

There isn't much of a discernable difference between 65 and 60, so you set the thermostat to 66, and it allows the temp to get to like 61 before kicking on the heat. In essence, the longer the heater has to run, the more efficient it is at using the fuel that it's used. Cold starts, like with cars, are disastrous for fuel consumption in a heater, since a large portion of the heat generated goes to warming the heater itself.

RobertSmalls · 10-02-09, 07:54 PM

I do have a 7/4 programmable thermostat, which would be great if I left the house on the same schedule every week. Instead, I'd like a button I can hit on my way out the door that sets it to 45°F for eight hours. This could be achieved with a switch and a timer in series with my programmable thermostat, and if necessary, a nonprogrammable thermostat in parallel, set to 45°F. File that under "interesting circuit, not worth building".

Christ, thanks for sharing that info about cold starts. A friend of mine got a new thermostat with a programmable temperature range, and now I know why.

Christ · 10-02-09, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertSmalls

I do have a 7/4 programmable thermostat, which would be great if I left the house on the same schedule every week. Instead, I'd like a button I can hit on my way out the door that sets it to 45°F for eight hours. This could be achieved with a switch and a timer in series with my programmable thermostat, and if necessary, a nonprogrammable thermostat in parallel, set to 45°F. File that under "interesting circuit, not worth building".

Christ, thanks for sharing that info about cold starts. A friend of mine got a new thermostat with a programmable temperature range, and now I know why.

NP, That's why they say you're best off with a system that's slightly bigger than too small, but slightly smaller than perfect sized.

I don't use furnace heat, but I've thought about a few ways to help maintain the temperature of the furnace, so that it wouldn't be quite so inefficient on startups.

Of course, the whole idea is defeated by having a house that doesn't lose heat quickly, also. The less your heater has to turn on, the better off you'll be on energy bills, even if the few times the furnace does come on, it's cold-starting.

09-28-09, 11:08 PM	#1
RobertSmalls Journeyman EcoRenovator Join Date: May 2009 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 344 Thanks: 3 Thanked 17 Times in 15 Posts	My winterization plans. It's a little cold and very windy in Buffalo today, and that got me thinking about the coming heating season. My plan for winterizing is fourfold. One, reduce the amount of space I will condition. Two, stop the house from leaking appreciable air. Three, inspect the attic and decide what to do up there. Four, set the thermostat lower. I rent the upper apartment in an 80 year old double. The downstairs tennants aren't very frugal, and they kindly provide me with a small amount of free radiant floor heating. I'm hoping to last until the snow starts falling without turning on the furnace. Since I might not live here next year, any improvements I make must either pay for themselves in a season, or must make a lasting improvement that future tennants will leave in place. My 700 ft² home is larger than I need. I've set up a dining room table in the kitchen, and couches in the dining room. That leaves me free to seal off the living room and the second bedroom, bringing me down to 440ft² of living space, plus 160ft² of unconditioned storage space. There's a 4'x7' archway leading into the living room. I think I'll just tack up a 4'x8' sheet of foil-backed foam board, or something with a good R-value, over the archway. Then I need to find a poster or large map or something to hide it. For sealing off the spare bedroom, I don't need to do anything more elaborate than sealing the heating duct with window plastic, closing the door, and laying a rug against the bottom of the doorway. I'll record temperatures inside and outside the room once furnace season starts. My windows are old and leak badly, so I'll put plastic over all of them, then try to depressurize the house to find smaller leaks. Hopefully, this will be a relatively small job, since I don't plan to do the basement, leaks from the lower apartment are welcome, and I don't know of any wires or pipes that enter the attic. The third prong of the plan is to inspect the attic and see what's what. Nobody's been up there for years, so I expect it to be an unclean, unhealthy place to be. If it's uninsulated, will it be worthwhile to lay down fiberglass? How thick? Finally, lowering the thermostat. There's more to it than just turning down the heat. I plan to learn to live with as low of temperatures as possible. Last year we had the thermostat set to 62°F. This year, maybe I'll try an electric matress pad and 60°F at night. Eliminating drafts will permit lower temperatures, too. I wonder how much energy I'd save by turning the furnace off for eight hours when I go to work. I have a few simple mods in mind for a two-wire thermostat, and maybe I'll try some of them out. As far as a timetable, I'll inspect the attic this weekend, but the rest will have to wait until the windows are closed for the season. So there's the plan for this winter. Did I overlook anything important?

09-30-09, 02:01 PM	#3
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	Sounds like a great plan to me Robert. I'd only emphasize that sealing will probably give you the best (by far) bang for your buck. Air infiltration is especially bad in older buildings. __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

10-01-09, 06:52 PM	#5
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	Yep, fiberglass insulation is expensive and not even as good as cellulose when it comes to real cold temperatures. Thats why I went with it, I got ~R40 for $300 in my ~700 sq ft attic. You could probably use a small space heater like Brian did here. http://ecorenovator.org/forum/projec...kitchen-2.html __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Last edited by Daox; 10-01-09 at 06:55 PM..

09-28-09, 11:46 PM	#2
Christ Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 123 Thanks: 14 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	If you cover the arch way on each side, you'll trap air in there, which is a better insulator than foam alone. Looks like a good plan, though. You could consider a portable IR heater, which only heats whatever the IR is pointed at, to keep you warm while you're sitting in your favorite chair doing whatever.... point it at yourself, and you can mostly forsake the rest of the apartment temps wise, because you'll stay warm. Wear dark clothing, it will absorb more of the IR and you can keep warmer with less energy use. Try to live away from the windows as much as possible, unless you absolutely have to have the sunlight. If you want to try a fairly simple experiment, and you have available sunlight during part of the day, hang a coiled up 50 foot garden hose full of water out your window, and run the inlet and outlet of the hose to a small radiator with a fan behind it. It's a quick and dirty solar thermal heater, no pump required. Neighbors might whine about that one, though.

10-01-09, 05:13 PM	#4
RobertSmalls Journeyman EcoRenovator Join Date: May 2009 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 344 Thanks: 3 Thanked 17 Times in 15 Posts	Speaking of air infiltration, I have a few indoor/outdoor thermometers, and I'm showing it's four degrees colder on my leaky windowsill than on my desk, three feet away. I priced out fiberglass insulation for the attic. To do the entire 800ft² attic, it would cost $725 for R38, $582 for R30, $348 for R13. Fortunately, someone already took care of that. There is 6" deep of loose fiberglass insulation between the rafters. Whoever insulated the attic saw fit to staple fiberglass to the attic access door. They overlooked gasketing the door, so I'll do that to keep my outside stairway a little warmer. I've found that no matter how much I bundle up, below a certain temperature, my hands get too cold to comfortably use a pencil or keyboard, and gloves are too cumbersome. I like the idea of an IR lamp, but the only ones I've ever seen are for cooking. Someone should make an oversized keyboard for gloved fingers.

10-02-09, 07:54 PM	#9
RobertSmalls Journeyman EcoRenovator Join Date: May 2009 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 344 Thanks: 3 Thanked 17 Times in 15 Posts	I do have a 7/4 programmable thermostat, which would be great if I left the house on the same schedule every week. Instead, I'd like a button I can hit on my way out the door that sets it to 45°F for eight hours. This could be achieved with a switch and a timer in series with my programmable thermostat, and if necessary, a nonprogrammable thermostat in parallel, set to 45°F. File that under "interesting circuit, not worth building". Christ, thanks for sharing that info about cold starts. A friend of mine got a new thermostat with a programmable temperature range, and now I know why.