High Performance Replacement Windows - Page 2

Daox · 02-23-11, 07:01 AM

I highly doubt that they're that cheap. I'd guess more like $350-400. My cousin is in the middle of replacing a few windows in his house with Anderson's higher end windows and I think he is paying ~$300 per window.

Xringer · 02-23-11, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S-F

I have been in contact with a Serious window dealer here in Western MA and he told me that they tend to go for about 15% more than Pella.

And Xringer, FWIW I have some curtains the little lady picked up at Target or Wally World for about $15 each. They hang all the way to the floor and do a great job of insulating and keeping the sun out for when I watch a movie on the projector during the day. From there you can get foil faced bubble wrap type fabric/insulation for not too much $ at Joanne Fabric to sew to the inside. Might be worth looking into. I haven't done that yet but when the local Army surplus store went out of business several years ago we picked up about 20 of those green wool blankets and layer them with the curtains. Makes a HUGE difference.

Our old ones are handmade and have some kind of rubbery backing.
Which is starting to fall off now. I like the idea of extra thick fabric
in the winter (like heavy a heavy sleeping bag maybe) that would
cover the whole window area. Plus the same treatment on the slider.
Foil backing sounds great for summer use.
And of course we would open them when the sun was on them in this kind of weather..
It's 47f in the den right now... (50f in our unheated basement).

mrd · 02-23-11, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daox

I highly doubt that they're that cheap. I'd guess more like $350-400. My cousin is in the middle of replacing a few windows in his house with Anderson's higher end windows and I think he is paying ~$300 per window.

I'd be amazed if they were as cheap as $400, I'm guessing more like $800 ea. Pella double-pane fiberglass windows cost about $400/ea

S-F · 02-23-11, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrd

I'd be amazed if they were as cheap as $400, I'm guessing more like $800 ea. Pella double-pane fiberglass windows cost about $400/ea

Eh?

Shop Windows & Doors : Windows & Window Wells : Windows : Vinyl : ThermaStar by Pella : Double Hung : Low E Argon at Lowes.com

What windows are you talking about?

mrd · 02-23-11, 07:50 PM

Pella Impervia, fiberglass composite. Glancing at the Serious Windows website, it looks like they offer both fiberglass and vinyl frames - the vinyl might actually be affordable..

S-F · 02-23-11, 08:03 PM

Could you link to some prices for these Pella windows?

mrd · 02-24-11, 04:32 AM

The only quotes I've found were direct from Pella.

S-F · 02-24-11, 06:34 AM

I wonder what the performance difference is between the windows you and I are talking about. It's probably more cost effective to simply reduce the total amount of glazing in favor of insulation and go with the cheaper window. I can't imagine spending $600 on a single window. For my proposed construction that would be over $13,000 in windows alone as opposed to $4,500. It would probably take me decades to break even. The difference is almost the total cost of installing insulation.

Daox · 02-24-11, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertSmalls

A basic, 36"x66" double-pane Pella window goes for $225 at Lowe's. That would suggest $260 for SeriousWindows.

Hmm, R13 for $260, or R3 for $130? I'd have to do some math. What is the annual energy cost of a R3 window?

This calculator should be able to calculate what you want.

Cost Saving for Insulation Upgrades

mrd · 02-24-11, 07:01 AM

Insulated wall is almost always cheaper than window, per square foot of material (unless, perhaps, if you compared extremely cheap windows to very thick insulated walls with expensive siding etc.)

Additionally, insulated wall will almost always have a higher R-value. Certainly, insulated wall is cheaper for equivalent R-value per square foot, unless you are doing something very, very wrong.

However, windows provide emergency egress, natural lighting, and views that give space character. These features are typically in mind when a home is designed, and a balance is struck.

Now in terms of energy efficiency of windows, you must look well beyond R-value. Windows tend to leak air, unlike a solid wall. Air leakage will raise the heating demand quickly. Unfortunately, window manufacturers aren't required to list air leakage specs, and few do. A safe way to ensure tight windows is to use windows with compression seals, such as awnings and casements.

Solar gain through windows can offset the lower R-value of the unit, in heating climates. A high SHGC is required to take advantage, and other factors must be taken into account. You want the solar exposure to strike a surface with high thermal mass, such as a concrete slab floor. You must consider how this direct heat can be uncomfortable, for example if a dining room is placed in the sun. You don't want too much glazing, leading to overheating. Solar gain through windows is the crux of passive home design.

But I'm thinking in terms of new construction. For renovation, replacing windows with wall introduces other costs and issues, like patching the exterior cladding to look natural, and affecting egress/ventilation/lighting/aesthetics negatively. Although insulated wall may be cheaper per square foot, installation/modification costs may make the window cheaper.

For renovation, look for tight windows - well constructed. Double glazing should be fine, the additional cost of triple is likely not cost effective. If the manufacturer offers double & triple in matching frames, perhaps consider triple panes in critical areas. In the US, north-facing windows typically cost the most in heat loss per square foot. South-facing windows can save you the most per square foot with high SHGC units, in fact south windows are probably the only ones where a high SHGC will be beneficial.

If the bulk of your energy costs are cooling instead of heating, then I suppose you want to invest more in the south-facing windows, and keep low SHGC all around.

The fiberglass frames are good for durability, and their thermal expansion/contraction closely matches glass, which in theory will reduce stress on the frame/glass seals and prolong the life of the window. I think the cost of these units is slowly coming down, as its gaining popularity. I'm not sure if window manufacturers like the idea of making more durable products, however..

02-23-11, 07:01 AM	#11
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	I highly doubt that they're that cheap. I'd guess more like $350-400. My cousin is in the middle of replacing a few windows in his house with Anderson's higher end windows and I think he is paying ~$300 per window. __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

02-23-11, 07:50 PM	#15
mrd Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Milford, DE Posts: 106 Thanks: 5 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	Pella Impervia, fiberglass composite. Glancing at the Serious Windows website, it looks like they offer both fiberglass and vinyl frames - the vinyl might actually be affordable..

02-23-11, 08:03 PM	#16
S-F You Ain't Me Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Northampton MA Posts: 662 Thanks: 6 Thanked 71 Times in 58 Posts	Could you link to some prices for these Pella windows?

02-24-11, 04:32 AM	#17
mrd Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Milford, DE Posts: 106 Thanks: 5 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	The only quotes I've found were direct from Pella.

02-24-11, 06:34 AM	#18
S-F You Ain't Me Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Northampton MA Posts: 662 Thanks: 6 Thanked 71 Times in 58 Posts	I wonder what the performance difference is between the windows you and I are talking about. It's probably more cost effective to simply reduce the total amount of glazing in favor of insulation and go with the cheaper window. I can't imagine spending $600 on a single window. For my proposed construction that would be over $13,000 in windows alone as opposed to $4,500. It would probably take me decades to break even. The difference is almost the total cost of installing insulation.

02-24-11, 07:01 AM	#20
mrd Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Milford, DE Posts: 106 Thanks: 5 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	Insulated wall is almost always cheaper than window, per square foot of material (unless, perhaps, if you compared extremely cheap windows to very thick insulated walls with expensive siding etc.) Additionally, insulated wall will almost always have a higher R-value. Certainly, insulated wall is cheaper for equivalent R-value per square foot, unless you are doing something very, very wrong. However, windows provide emergency egress, natural lighting, and views that give space character. These features are typically in mind when a home is designed, and a balance is struck. Now in terms of energy efficiency of windows, you must look well beyond R-value. Windows tend to leak air, unlike a solid wall. Air leakage will raise the heating demand quickly. Unfortunately, window manufacturers aren't required to list air leakage specs, and few do. A safe way to ensure tight windows is to use windows with compression seals, such as awnings and casements. Solar gain through windows can offset the lower R-value of the unit, in heating climates. A high SHGC is required to take advantage, and other factors must be taken into account. You want the solar exposure to strike a surface with high thermal mass, such as a concrete slab floor. You must consider how this direct heat can be uncomfortable, for example if a dining room is placed in the sun. You don't want too much glazing, leading to overheating. Solar gain through windows is the crux of passive home design. But I'm thinking in terms of new construction. For renovation, replacing windows with wall introduces other costs and issues, like patching the exterior cladding to look natural, and affecting egress/ventilation/lighting/aesthetics negatively. Although insulated wall may be cheaper per square foot, installation/modification costs may make the window cheaper. For renovation, look for tight windows - well constructed. Double glazing should be fine, the additional cost of triple is likely not cost effective. If the manufacturer offers double & triple in matching frames, perhaps consider triple panes in critical areas. In the US, north-facing windows typically cost the most in heat loss per square foot. South-facing windows can save you the most per square foot with high SHGC units, in fact south windows are probably the only ones where a high SHGC will be beneficial. If the bulk of your energy costs are cooling instead of heating, then I suppose you want to invest more in the south-facing windows, and keep low SHGC all around. The fiberglass frames are good for durability, and their thermal expansion/contraction closely matches glass, which in theory will reduce stress on the frame/glass seals and prolong the life of the window. I think the cost of these units is slowly coming down, as its gaining popularity. I'm not sure if window manufacturers like the idea of making more durable products, however..