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Old 01-19-16, 07:36 AM   #111
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Junkhound.

Your financial analysis of 2016 is spot on with regard to your situation. Mine too.

I have a 2012 Honda Civic with a lifetime gas mileage of 38+ mpg. We own it and the driving costs per mile are low. My wife drives back and forth to work and also has weekend/night call obligations so we put about 20-25 k miles on it every year.

I have watched the prices of gas go up and down over the years. Right now, I can get gasahol at $1.35 /gallon here (Oklahoma). This is LOWER, when adjusted for inflation, than any gas price/gallon ecver (going back 100 years). Yes, lower than the 25 cents/gallon we think of back in the mid 60's.

It will not stay this low for long. With every dip in oil prices, and the media claiming it will stay this low forever - it won't. I expect $150-200 per barrel oil within a few years and gasoline in the $5-7 /gallon range.

And I am planning for that. I have already seen $4.50/gallon (a few summers ago).

In anticipation, I am studying EV plug in cars and what to buy when. This thread has been invaluable The old farmhouse teardown and renovation will include at least 10 kW of rooftop PV. The "return" on investment (internal rate of return) for me when I do self installed PV is in the low 20% range. Yowyza!

I still need internal combustion stuff (tractors, farm trucks etc) so I need diesel. And the cost of fertilizer is directly tied to the cost of petrochemical stocks. Right now, ammonium nitrate is less than $500 per ton - incredibly cheap. So I am not gleefully predicting high petrochemical, oil and natural gas costs.

You do have a point on finances. People that financially "invested" in 1950's bomb shelters, lost a lot of money. You do have to examine the likelihood of events. And being too financially conservative is just as dangerous as being too extravagant.

For now, you are spot on. But I am betting that current teenagers will fondly recall (in many decades) when they bought $1.30/gallon gas. Many will wonder what gasoline per gallon is as they will be thinking of electrical units . . . .

For me, I am betting on large scale adoption of EV. A real inflection point of miles/kWh has just been realized. It is realistic to see 4+ miles/kWh in the next year. Crossing the 4 level is a game changer.

The other game changer is the cost of home grid tied PV power. Right now, all roof top materials (panels, inverters, racking and wiring) can be had for less than $1.25 a watt retail and will likely drop to $1.00/watt this summer. Then add about 2-3 hours of time per kW of panels for installation. That PV price/kW is also an inflection point.

The combination of the two (miles/kWh and prices of PV) makes solar PV and home charging of an EV not only realistic, but actually a saver when I look at my 40 mpg Honda.

Sadly, I am some 15-20 miles out of town and have the bad habit of not being as organized as I should. Therefore, I make stupid trips when I could consolidate them. A PV powered plug in EV (or hybrid) can accommodate my poor planning and make it less bad.

I too have some envy for those adopters that comment here. Kids in college makes choices tough, but they are graduating and getting JOBS - yippee!

Thanks to all of you that have posted on your PV solar and EV experiences good and bad. I read with envy and anticipation.


Steve

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Last edited by stevehull; 01-19-16 at 09:02 AM..
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Old 01-19-16, 08:50 AM   #112
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The Bolt will not be for everybody. If you want to have only one car and you go on vacation and not rent a car for vacation the Volt is a better choice. We drive to NC and GA in the Volt the Bolt can’t easily do those trips. My wife has days she drive over 200 miles but sense we have a Tahoe we could switch cars on those days.

EV’s will not make sense for everyone. Used Volts and other EV are way down in price. When you go to the Volt forum only a small percent of the buyers buy because of savings. Fun quite drive and the environment are much higher that savings.

I have a GM credit card and the send me incentives. The deal when I bought my car.
$9,000 Off MSRP- Rebates Total $6,000 + dealer discount (GM card top off $3,000 + preferred $1,000) $2,000 GM rebate
$9500Tax credits (fed $7500 SC state $2,000)
When you take $18,500 off the price it does not seem as bad anymore. Plus 0% for 72 months.

I don’t have a lot of deductions so I really loved not paying so much into the tax man for a year.

Even at the gas prices right now we still save a fair amount each month but we drive a lot more than most people. As always the more you spend the more you have to save.
There are saving there when you add solar to the mix. I save more on gas each month than elect. Even at today’s prices. I do not think these prices will last.

But I do find it funny that as soon as prices went down large SUV sales went through the roof. Some of those same people will be locked into a large SUV when gas pieces are back up. Some of them will not be able to afford to drive them. But I say the majority of people if not all on here do not fall into that trap.
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Old 01-19-16, 11:06 AM   #113
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I bought both my EVs used and at substantial discounts.

I used $3 per gallon to compare to my old car that was paid off. At the time buying the Volt meant I broke even in about 4 years. With lower gas prices that will take longer, but I have far less maintenance and no regrets.

The Leaf replaced a car my wife had driven for 13 years. Perhaps we could have driven it a few more years, but it was getting worn out and needed some expensive work. The Leaf was under $9000 and it fulfills her needs nicely. She was going to buy a new car either way, so electric made sense for the replacement.

Now we just need to talk our neighbor to the south into trimming his 200 ft Chinese elms back so that we can install a solar system.
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Old 01-19-16, 11:26 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mejunkhound View Post
I might convert one of my old cars to electric one of these days, however,

Losing game IMO, rebate like buying a bigger house on mortgage so you can deduct the interest ? Now, if gas starts getting near $8 gallon, then maybe, but of course then investment return will likely rise also.

I only posted this because of juvenile envy of the rich <G>
I've been a subscriber an infrequent contributor to the EVDL (Electric Vehicle Discussion List) list since dial up internet days. I've been wanting to do an electric vehicle conversion for all those years, but raising kids and keeping the family afloat has meant it was always too expensive.

Even using the lowest cost DIY methods you will have to spend a fair chunk of change for good batteries. When I saw that you can now buy entire PROFESSIONALLY ENGINEERED cars for less than the cost of the conversion parts I jumped in.

Of course, there are now people buying damaged Leafs and Teslas and using the batteries and drivetrain to do a less expensive conversion.

We are far from wealthy. We just looked at the return on investment. Recently a Volt was listed in the local classifieds for $10,500. For the right person that car could easily pay itself back with fuel savings.

Sorry if I've rambled on too much.

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Old 01-19-16, 11:30 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehull View Post
This is NOT a slam against the older and new upcoming Volt. But why would you buy a Volt when the 200 mile range Chevy Bolt is coming out in 6 months?
Because there are no USED Bolts. In 3 or 4 years it may become an attractive alternative.
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Old 01-19-16, 11:47 AM   #116
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When I bought mine in 2013 there were no good used Volt deals I look as far as FL. They we all about the same as me buying new. (after the 7500 tax fed credit and our 2k state credit.) That is not the case now there are some very good deals out there now.
We drive enough miles that mine will pay for its self not many cars out there will do that.
I have done only one oil change so far 58K miles. That adds to the savings and saves me some work/time not having to get under the car near as much.
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Old 02-08-16, 05:08 PM   #117
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Our 2013 Volt just went over 48K Solar powered EV miles. Only one oil change needed so far.
what a great way to use solar power. We should netzero this year again.




I just went out to VoltStat and sparkie now has 293K miles wow with 103K EV miles.

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Old 03-24-16, 09:13 PM   #118
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This is pretty impressive.

Durable 2012 Chevrolet Volt: 300,000 miles, no battery loss
Durable 2012 Chevrolet Volt: 300,000 miles, no battery loss
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Old 04-14-16, 04:45 PM   #119
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Chevy quoted me on their face book page.
We are now at over 51,230 solar powered miles but still cool.
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Old 04-14-16, 05:22 PM   #120
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That is an awesome achievement!!

Continuing to love our Volt.

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