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Old 08-16-10, 08:08 AM   #51
bennelson
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The batteries I am using are about 100 AH.
I have two more groups of four batteries that I can add in parallel strings to increase the capacity of the system.

One issue that I still have is that my garage is NOT climate controlled. As the UPS is basically computer equipment, I have concerns about temperature and humidity. I hope to rebuild my garage next summer, as a nice, insulated (possibly passive heated) building.

I don't have room in my house for batteries, or solar access for PV panels - it has to be in my garage.

Do I design some sort of climate-controlled enclosure for the UPS and batteries?

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Old 08-16-10, 08:22 AM   #52
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I don't think that will be necessary. The batteries obviously won't perform well in the cold, but you are planning for some form of heat so that won't be a huge issue. I'm pretty sure I remember seeing a fan or two on them to provide cooling as well, so heat shouldn't be an issue either.
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Old 08-16-10, 08:49 AM   #53
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I'm mostly concerned about humidity/condensation issues.

I want to keep the insides of the inverter from rusting and having other trouble.
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Old 08-16-10, 09:18 AM   #54
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If the UPS is kept running, it might keep itself warm enough to stay dry inside.
Since it's not holding heavy LAs anymore, I can't see how rust becomes a problem.?.


Link to pic Document


I wonder if you could use an old reefer or a big beer cooler?

Here's a small one..
Battery Bank in a Cooler | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
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Old 08-17-10, 01:53 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bennelson View Post
I'm mostly concerned about humidity/condensation issues.

I want to keep the insides of the inverter from rusting and having other trouble.
Very interesting project! Thank you for sharing.

See my recent new thread about humidity. There is a link to some new technology, which hardly uses any energy to dehumidify air. It was thought of as a drinking water generator for remote dry areas, or other areas where drinking water is scarce, but since it takes the water from the air, it is actually a dehumidifier. It is not using cooling to extract the moisture from the air, but a process involving a special liquid and a vacuum container. Brilliant!

I can see you did get a battery charger. I am doing a solar heat/PV system myself, using a new type of hybrid panels from Solarus:: Unlocking solar energy :: Home (En) (see the English version, and click hybrid under products). Producing 3.8 kW peak, I will be grid connected, and I already have an inverter.

BUT, I will also add in a DC-DC battery charger, and I found a great series of chargers that will take either AC or DC, up to 500V DC on some models I think. This one takes up to 350 V DC: Blue Power Charger IP 65 / IP 20 - Victron Energy

I am installing some 12V LED lights, and I also intend to make USB and Macbook plugs, to be used straight off the DC (via batteries). Also, essential parts of the solar heat system, internet, router and so on, will most likely be mounted on a UPS like bus, on the battery pack via an inverter. In case of blackout, the inverter will kick in and relays will switch the grid OFF (because it is gone anyway), and the inverter on. Even though the solar panels can take an overheat situation well, it is better for the longevity of the system to stay cool at all times.
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Last edited by osolemio; 08-17-10 at 01:56 AM.. Reason: Typo
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Old 09-11-10, 09:50 AM   #56
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As of Sept. 11, 2010, I still only have one of the 48V solar panels hooked up. Unfortunately, I don’t have as good solar access at my house as I would like. The other problem is that these solar panels use a special power connector called an MC3. Each panel has one male and one female MC3 connector. The upside of that is one panel can very easily be plugged right into the one next to it. This series connection increases the voltage. So, connecting the panels is easier, but now I would need a HIGH VOLTAGE charger/inverter (expensive/grid-tie) to handle the nearly 400 volts I would get from it.

Alternatively, I could purchase some Y-Adapters (which aren’t that cheap either, but I wouldn't need too many of them) to connect the panels in parallel. That would increase the amperage, but keep the voltage the same. That would give me a 8-amp/48-volt solar-powered battery charger.

If all eight panels were mounted together, they would be roughly 6′ by 12′.

My garage doesn’t face the sun (and a tree covers it half the day) nor does my house ridge. It looks like the best location for the solar panels would be a pole mount in the front yard. If I did that, perhaps a tracker would be in order as well. However, at that location, I would have to dig a LONG trench down the side of my driveway (and I know there are buried utilities there!) or run the cables in/under/through to the other side of the driveway.

Anyways, those are the challenges right now preventing me from setting up the full eight panels.

In the garage, I have the UPS hooked up to two strings of 4 batteries (800AH total, or 9.6KWH)

I made a custom power cable to connect the 20 amp outlet of the UPS to a 30amp plug on the wall (just because I already had it, and it's different) to a 20 amp circuit breaker to use as an input.

To take the garage off grid, I turn off the "To House" 50amp breaker, turn on the UPS/INVERTER, and flip on the 20 amp "From INVERTER" breaker. The garage is then running all by itself, and not affecting my house power.

As it is, the single solar panel is very slow to recharge the batteries. I will have to add the rest to make it a really practical system.

Also, I recently purchased a TED ( Home page )
From the data from the TED, I learned that I run a base load of of 80 watts at the lowest to maybe 500 watts max base load.

EV charging uses a fair amount of power over time. Water pumps use 1000 watts each (well pump and greywater pump) but only run briefly.
The coffee pot, toaster, and microwave all use lots of power, but not for too long.

Anyways, I don't see why I couldn't run the whole house off the UPS as long as I manage when the peak loads are going on.
It would be GREAT for power during a blackout. Running my house off the inverter all the time probably wouldn't work unless I really paid a lot of attention to my peak loads.



In this image, the yellow line represents the maximum power the UPS can create. The only time the power use exceeded what the UPS could create was was right when the dishwasher started (which may have turned on the well pump too.)
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Old 09-13-10, 08:33 AM   #57
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I wonder if any Ebay sellers know they can get MC3 hardware really cheap
in large quantities Solar Mc3 Connector-Solar Mc3 Connector Manufacturers, Suppliers and Exporters on alibaba.com
and sell them at 3x their cost to folks that don't want to pay 20 or 30 USD per piece.

Heck, if you pay the local markup, those little connectors can add up to
a good percentage of your thin-film panels!

I was thinking of just cutting off the factory connectors and going with these.
Powerpole Connectors
But, they aren't water proof. One would have to keep them out of the rain somehow.

Here's a source of the crimp type. Crimper aren't too costly. Think substitute.
PowerPole Connectors


If you could find some space, you might try using a temporary PV setup.

And just run some flexible conduit on the surface of the lawn.

My Solar Tracker experiment is temporary. So far the city inspector has not asked me about it.
Right now, it's just research, to see if a large post mounted array would work in a backyard location..

Last edited by Xringer; 09-13-10 at 10:34 AM..
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Old 09-13-10, 08:46 AM   #58
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I was talking with a friend yesterday who said that he cut off all the connections on his PV panels, and replaced them with something more standard.

He also mentioned the use of some sort of a small junction box for waterproofing. I will have to ask if he can send me a photo so I can know what type of box and connector he can use.

Last time I looked at any MC3 "do-it-yerself" gear, an MC3 crimper was something like $900! Yipes!
That's more than I paid for the 8 panels!
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Old 09-13-10, 09:28 AM   #59
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I only have 4 panels, so I only ordered two pair of MC4 Ebay connectors.


That's just enough for me to go series or 2&2 parallel for 1/2 the voltage.
I soldered them on. Found one 'body' had a problem holding the pin,
and the Ebayer sent me a new piece, which worked fine.

These connectors don't look so heavy-duty to my eye.
My guess is waterproof trailer hitch lighting connectors might work.

I guess they don't have to be that beefy, if you always turn off the load
BEFORE making connections or disconnections.

You never want to arc these things. They might just weld in place.

I really like the way Anderson Power Pole connectors work and would
likely use them if I needed to add more panels. (That weren't in series).

For a real temporary setup, I wonder if plain old electrical twist caps would work?


To prevent rain getting in,?, maybe rain-loops in the wires and place
the connectors up inside a plastic cup. Maybe even push some of that
HomeDepot electricians putty up inside the cup. To keep out flying snow..
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Old 11-15-10, 02:54 PM   #60
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Haha! I just used some of those little twist caps for adding a couple of 10w PVs to my tracking array..

Today, I 'won' two nice 200w panels. (More MC4 connectors).
http://www.solarelectricsupply.com/p...6P-200-240.pdf

The voltage at max power is 28.9V (Open is 36.2), so two of them could output about 57.8 volts. (At max power out).

I've been looking at the Xantrex C40 manual and it's not clear what PV voltage is needed for a 48 volt battery bank..
If the bulk 48 setting is 56.4, I wonder if 57.8v is going to be enough PV.?.

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