Mini split - HVAC tools not needed

Vern2 · 08-08-13, 04:54 PM

No need for HVAC tools or tech.

I wanted to watch every mini split install on You Tube.

Problems:

1) I see only 15' line set. Great for me for garage shop install.

2) Can only have one Air handler.

I would like any comments, good or bad.

Found this video.

jeff5may · 08-09-13, 04:33 AM

Looks like a winner to me. Looks like almost everything is included in the box set. Pre-charged lineset included with schrader valves on the ends, so no need to purge. Drill some holes, mount the units, run some wires and tubes, enjoy!

I googled the brand and found that Sunlight Supply carries these units. Here and here.

First link is 13 seer a/c only, second link is 15 seer heat pump w/ inverter compressor.

They say the units come with a 23 ft. line set. Not cheap, but still a good deal vs. having a tech visit your home to do the install. They seem to honor the warranty for a year with some obvious caveats.

Vern2 · 08-09-13, 08:19 AM

jeff5may,

Thank's! I thought I might be opening a can of worms.

I was watching Xringer's thread on installing mini split. The weather in Arizona is starting to break. I'm locked out of shop for 3 summer months here, but 8 good months coming up.

Now I'm trying to figure out the best place to put air handler. Would like to cool ammo reloading and hand tools room.

Vern2 · 08-09-13, 12:25 PM

jeff5may,

Here's a better price.

MN Renovator · 08-11-13, 10:07 PM

The price of the Sunlight supply link is nearly twice the cost of a Fujitsu or Mitsubishi heat pump but you are looking at "15 seer" which isn't an AHRI certified figure as far as I can tell and there's no HSPF ratings. The second link is showing AC only and it is not a heat pump. Looking at these things they look like they are some of the first disposable heat pumps, how do you service the charge if it is ever needed, I'm not seeing how. Also looking at the incredibly loose fit on those air filters, your evaporator is going to get clogged up quickly so if you do go with this idea, fix their bad design by closing the gap. I'm sure some tape would do the trick and follow the same apparent quality as the rest of the product. I see the benefits of mini-splits to have some of the highest efficiency on the market but these are mediocre/minimum and they don't have performance values in heating and I have a hunch defrost is timer controlled instead of demand controlled so I'd be careful if you want to use these to heat as that could be a spendy proposition if it even works well. IMHO these are basically window shakers that mount in a permanent fashion. I'd rather install a window for a window shaker than use one of these no-name brands aimed for grow room use(based on the two sites in the above links), usually grow ops don't care about the quality of their equipment or its efficiency as long as their plants grow.

Vern2 · 08-11-13, 10:46 PM

MN Renovator, thank's for your post.

You make some good points. I don't want to spend $500 for HVAC tools, and it's an easy install.

12,000 btu Fujitsu units seen to be $1,400, Ideal is $1,079 it's much cheaper, link.

I'm looking at Inverter technology, not the high cost to run, window units. 13 seer is okay for arizona, don't need heat.

jeff5may · 08-12-13, 01:11 AM

MN,

I understand your point about buying the best and scrutinizing the rest. But this is the world we live in today: the big dogs sell their designs to the highest bidder when they come out with a new model/revision/product line. Not just with HVAC equipment; it's with everything. Last year's Sony stuff is this year's Emerson/Sylvania/Westinghouse/GE stuff. They change the plastic face/shell, and presto! New product. The guts that do the work are 99.9% the same.

I've never heard of Ideal Air, but I bet if you look under the hood you'll find industry standard guts that will cross directly with a Haier, Sanyo, LG, Samsung, or other major manufacturer's previous generation of units. Ideal Air most likely bought the rights to this "obsolete" product and threw in the sealed lineset as a marketing gimmick. They are making a product for a market that badly needs such a solution. They probably didn't design the units, and may not even make their own plastic shells or assemble the units. Since the unit was "AHRI" or "ASHRAE" tested by the previous OEM, Ideal Air may or may not feel the need to recertify/retest/pay again for the same approval.

However, this doesn't automatically mean the units are garbage. The company may have a few sharp mechanical engineers behind the helm. Who's to say these fellows can't beat Mitsubishi or LG (Lucky Goldstar: Philips bailed them out) at their own game. The big dogs are not about to market a unit their dealers cannot install for heavenly margins. It doesn't fit into the business model.

charlesfl · 08-12-13, 07:46 AM

You might want to look at Friedrich. It is an American name and might have better support for parts and repairs. A lot of the Chinese units are rebranded china units, maybe manufactured by
Shinco.

Friedrich Breeze - The Worlds First DIY Mini Split Air Conditioner

This one also has a pre charged line set.

Hope this helps. Charlesfl

Vern2 · 08-12-13, 08:03 AM

charlesfl,

You guy's are great. Friedrich... ?

Xringer · 08-12-13, 08:11 AM

What about the air that's in those two vertical tubes?
Those two 6 inch pipes are full of air and it's going to contaminate the R410A..

Wait a sec.. Here's a totally different hookup..
http://www.ideal-air.com/media/11692...%20on%2012.pdf

This plug-n-play looks just like the same one that I saw a few years ago.
For some reason, it never took off. I suspected it may have leaked a bit..

If you buy this today, which connection system would you get??

~~~

Since you have free power, the SEER of the unit is not important..?.

~~~

As been posted before, the 3rd world ' R410A Flood' install doesn't need HVAC tools either.
One line is left a little loose, the R410A is released into the lineset, (from the tightened side)
forcing (flooding) the air out of the system, via the loose flare.
After a few ounces of R410A sprays out, the flare is tightened down.

Sounds a little tricky to me. But, I could do it. Not sure how effectively it would flush out the air.
The R410a might freeze the air into an ice coating inside the copper tube,
so it remains inside the system.?.

If a lot of air/H2O was left in the system, it might not operate to spec.
Or, it might just die an early death.. No way to know.

08-08-13, 04:54 PM	#1
Vern2 Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Arizona Posts: 145 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Mini split - HVAC tools not needed No need for HVAC tools or tech. I wanted to watch every mini split install on You Tube. Problems: 1) I see only 15' line set. Great for me for garage shop install. 2) Can only have one Air handler. I would like any comments, good or bad. Found this video. __________________ Vern To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Last edited by Vern2; 08-08-13 at 05:00 PM..

08-09-13, 08:19 AM	#3
Vern2 Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Arizona Posts: 145 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	jeff5may, Thank's! I thought I might be opening a can of worms. I was watching Xringer's thread on installing mini split. The weather in Arizona is starting to break. I'm locked out of shop for 3 summer months here, but 8 good months coming up. Now I'm trying to figure out the best place to put air handler. Would like to cool ammo reloading and hand tools room. __________________ Vern To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Last edited by Vern2; 08-09-13 at 12:31 PM..

08-09-13, 12:25 PM	#4
Vern2 Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Arizona Posts: 145 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	jeff5may, Here's a better price. __________________ Vern To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

08-11-13, 10:46 PM	#6
Vern2 Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Arizona Posts: 145 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	MN Renovator, thank's for your post. You make some good points. I don't want to spend $500 for HVAC tools, and it's an easy install. 12,000 btu Fujitsu units seen to be $1,400, Ideal is $1,079 it's much cheaper, link. I'm looking at Inverter technology, not the high cost to run, window units. 13 seer is okay for arizona, don't need heat. __________________ Vern To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Last edited by Vern2; 08-11-13 at 10:50 PM..

08-12-13, 01:11 AM	#7
jeff5may Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: elizabethtown, ky, USA Posts: 2,428 Thanks: 431 Thanked 619 Times in 517 Posts	MN, I understand your point about buying the best and scrutinizing the rest. But this is the world we live in today: the big dogs sell their designs to the highest bidder when they come out with a new model/revision/product line. Not just with HVAC equipment; it's with everything. Last year's Sony stuff is this year's Emerson/Sylvania/Westinghouse/GE stuff. They change the plastic face/shell, and presto! New product. The guts that do the work are 99.9% the same. I've never heard of Ideal Air, but I bet if you look under the hood you'll find industry standard guts that will cross directly with a Haier, Sanyo, LG, Samsung, or other major manufacturer's previous generation of units. Ideal Air most likely bought the rights to this "obsolete" product and threw in the sealed lineset as a marketing gimmick. They are making a product for a market that badly needs such a solution. They probably didn't design the units, and may not even make their own plastic shells or assemble the units. Since the unit was "AHRI" or "ASHRAE" tested by the previous OEM, Ideal Air may or may not feel the need to recertify/retest/pay again for the same approval. However, this doesn't automatically mean the units are garbage. The company may have a few sharp mechanical engineers behind the helm. Who's to say these fellows can't beat Mitsubishi or LG (Lucky Goldstar: Philips bailed them out) at their own game. The big dogs are not about to market a unit their dealers cannot install for heavenly margins. It doesn't fit into the business model. Last edited by jeff5may; 08-12-13 at 01:14 AM..

08-09-13, 04:33 AM	#2
jeff5may Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: elizabethtown, ky, USA Posts: 2,428 Thanks: 431 Thanked 619 Times in 517 Posts	Looks like a winner to me. Looks like almost everything is included in the box set. Pre-charged lineset included with schrader valves on the ends, so no need to purge. Drill some holes, mount the units, run some wires and tubes, enjoy! I googled the brand and found that Sunlight Supply carries these units. Here and here. First link is 13 seer a/c only, second link is 15 seer heat pump w/ inverter compressor. They say the units come with a 23 ft. line set. Not cheap, but still a good deal vs. having a tech visit your home to do the install. They seem to honor the warranty for a year with some obvious caveats.

08-11-13, 10:07 PM	#5
MN Renovator Less usage=Cheaper bills Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 939 Thanks: 41 Thanked 116 Times in 90 Posts	The price of the Sunlight supply link is nearly twice the cost of a Fujitsu or Mitsubishi heat pump but you are looking at "15 seer" which isn't an AHRI certified figure as far as I can tell and there's no HSPF ratings. The second link is showing AC only and it is not a heat pump. Looking at these things they look like they are some of the first disposable heat pumps, how do you service the charge if it is ever needed, I'm not seeing how. Also looking at the incredibly loose fit on those air filters, your evaporator is going to get clogged up quickly so if you do go with this idea, fix their bad design by closing the gap. I'm sure some tape would do the trick and follow the same apparent quality as the rest of the product. I see the benefits of mini-splits to have some of the highest efficiency on the market but these are mediocre/minimum and they don't have performance values in heating and I have a hunch defrost is timer controlled instead of demand controlled so I'd be careful if you want to use these to heat as that could be a spendy proposition if it even works well. IMHO these are basically window shakers that mount in a permanent fashion. I'd rather install a window for a window shaker than use one of these no-name brands aimed for grow room use(based on the two sites in the above links), usually grow ops don't care about the quality of their equipment or its efficiency as long as their plants grow.

08-12-13, 07:46 AM	#8
charlesfl Helper EcoRenovator Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Pensacola Florida Posts: 38 Thanks: 17 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	You might want to look at Friedrich. It is an American name and might have better support for parts and repairs. A lot of the Chinese units are rebranded china units, maybe manufactured by Shinco. Friedrich Breeze - The Worlds First DIY Mini Split Air Conditioner This one also has a pre charged line set. Hope this helps. Charlesfl

08-12-13, 08:03 AM	#9
Vern2 Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Arizona Posts: 145 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	charlesfl, You guy's are great. Friedrich... ? __________________ Vern To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Last edited by Vern2; 08-12-13 at 11:25 AM..

08-12-13, 08:11 AM	#10
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	What about the air that's in those two vertical tubes? Those two 6 inch pipes are full of air and it's going to contaminate the R410A.. Wait a sec.. Here's a totally different hookup.. http://www.ideal-air.com/media/11692...%20on%2012.pdf This plug-n-play looks just like the same one that I saw a few years ago. For some reason, it never took off. I suspected it may have leaked a bit.. If you buy this today, which connection system would you get?? ~~~ Since you have free power, the SEER of the unit is not important..?. ~~~ As been posted before, the 3rd world ' R410A Flood' install doesn't need HVAC tools either. One line is left a little loose, the R410A is released into the lineset, (from the tightened side) forcing (flooding) the air out of the system, via the loose flare. After a few ounces of R410A sprays out, the flare is tightened down. Sounds a little tricky to me. But, I could do it. Not sure how effectively it would flush out the air. The R410a might freeze the air into an ice coating inside the copper tube, so it remains inside the system.?. If a lot of air/H2O was left in the system, it might not operate to spec. Or, it might just die an early death.. No way to know. __________________ My hobby is installing & trying to repair mini-splits EPA 608 Type 1 Technician Certification ~ 5 lbs or less.. Last edited by Xringer; 08-12-13 at 08:15 AM..