shocked by the general public's thoughts on energy.

strider3700 · 01-10-12, 04:32 PM

My reasons for doing what we do on this board are simple. In this order
1 - All of this saves me money on energy which is only getting more expensive. This is good for me and my families pocketbook.
2 - I'm a doomer by nature - I expect things to get far more expensive or just not be available in the future. The less I need to use the better in those situations.
3 - It's good for the environment and I'm thinking about what I'm leaving behind for my kids and hopefully one day grandkids.

I don't tend to discuss these things with others outside of this board unless they ask. It's a semi personal thing and I assumed most people felt at least a little bit this way.

Recently I found something different.

My electricity provider is the only on in the province. THey recently opened up a online forum for customers to give feedback, discuss things.... so I jumped on and made a few posts. I like my new smart meter, I wish we had time of use billing,... basic things. I right away got support from a few others who by what they said had made similar improvements to their homes and were doing a lot to conserve. We all figured we could save money with cheap middle of the night rates. mine and their biggest loads are hotwater, heatpump and clothes dryers. timers and night being colder then day normally means I'd save money.

SHortly after we got bashed on by a lot of people. Their basic understanding of the electric system here was shockingly poor. They hate the smart meters due to radiation dangers, privacy concerns and they somehow expect their bills to go up. They hate the possibility of time of use billing because they have zero interest in changing their habits and just see a higher prime time rate as being a cashgrab. They found two tier pricing unfair. They think that the base 6.3 cents/kwh is too expensive and the second tier 9.6 cents/kwh outright gouging.

Then they'd blame the company for making their lifestyles difficult - they have 7 kids, baseboard heating in a 3500 sqft home, walk in fridge/freezers and/or heated barns on farms,... so the company should do something to lower what they pay since their bills are so high.

I was shocked that this appears to be the majority opinion and most of them couldn't see 10 minutes into the future to see how some minor changes on their part could save them money.

AC_Hacker · 01-10-12, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strider3700

I was shocked that this appears to be the majority opinion and most of them couldn't see 10 minutes into the future...

I'm sure with you on this one.

It is interesting, the way people make decisions...

You would think that people would look at various points of view, do some research, find out what is true, and incorporate those things that are true into one's thinking.

But I am afraid (and afraid for our species) that the way most people make decisions is more like decorating a living room... If a new piece of furniture is put into the room and it clashes, the idea that all the furniture might need to be replaced is just too painful, so the new furniture (or idea) has to go.

But just in case there's a change that valid information might prevail, I offer this link:

OilPoster.org

-AC_Hacker

hamsterpower · 01-10-12, 05:51 PM

I share your outlook. Don't get too depressed about "most" people. keep in mind, people rarely take time out of there day to agree or give positive feedback, but will go to great lengths to complain. This is why I always pay more attention to good reviews than bad reviews.

Ryland · 01-10-12, 11:31 PM

I feel like I live a very sheltered life, my neighbors call me up asking questions about air sealing their house all the time, I tell other people that in the past 3 years we've more then cut our utility bills in half while making our house more comfortable and they ask where to start, even my brother who is pretty main stream will call me up from the home improvement store with questions about LED and CFL bulbs and if getting an energy star rated fridge is good enough.
They all seem to have good questions about off peek metering and putting timers on their water heaters, sure some of them want their yellow incandescent light that they can dim down to a pale orange with a dimmer switch and other things I wouldn't bother with, but you pick your battles.
Maybe I am sheltered.

AlanE · 01-10-12, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strider3700

My reasons for doing what we do on this board are simple. In this order
1 - All of this saves me money on energy which is only getting more expensive. This is good for me and my families pocketbook.
2 - I'm a doomer by nature - I expect things to get far more expensive or just not be available in the future. The less I need to use the better in those situations.
3 - It's good for the environment and I'm thinking about what I'm leaving behind for my kids and hopefully one day grandkids.

I don't tend to discuss these things with others outside of this board unless they ask. It's a semi personal thing and I assumed most people felt at least a little bit this way.

Recently I found something different.

My electricity provider is the only on in the province. THey recently opened up a online forum for customers to give feedback, discuss things.... so I jumped on and made a few posts. I like my new smart meter, I wish we had time of use billing,... basic things. I right away got support from a few others who by what they said had made similar improvements to their homes and were doing a lot to conserve. We all figured we could save money with cheap middle of the night rates. mine and their biggest loads are hotwater, heatpump and clothes dryers. timers and night being colder then day normally means I'd save money.

SHortly after we got bashed on by a lot of people. Their basic understanding of the electric system here was shockingly poor. They hate the smart meters due to radiation dangers, privacy concerns and they somehow expect their bills to go up. They hate the possibility of time of use billing because they have zero interest in changing their habits and just see a higher prime time rate as being a cashgrab. They found two tier pricing unfair. They think that the base 6.3 cents/kwh is too expensive and the second tier 9.6 cents/kwh outright gouging.

Then they'd blame the company for making their lifestyles difficult - they have 7 kids, baseboard heating in a 3500 sqft home, walk in fridge/freezers and/or heated barns on farms,... so the company should do something to lower what they pay since their bills are so high.

I was shocked that this appears to be the majority opinion and most of them couldn't see 10 minutes into the future to see how some minor changes on their part could save them money.

I'm in Victoria and I'd love to read that BCHydro thread. Can you please post a link?

strider3700 · 01-11-12, 02:22 AM

go here
https://www.yourpowerpoll.ca/Portal/...2fdefault.aspx
sign up to be a panelist and it's under the discussions area. They really make it a pain compared to normal forums.

Direct linking won't work. I pulled my post from most of the threads on there anyways.

Quest · 01-11-12, 09:39 AM

LOL! already paying the cheepest electricity in the continental NA region (Vancouver, BeeCee) and customers just keep whining about that (still being expensive? Look into their own lifestyle/wastefulness and then start laying casual blame on the world (when will these kids ever grow up and face the real world? makes you wonder).

They will come out with all sorts of lame excuses for not conserving energy: from smart meter carrying radiation health hazards (do they also own cell phones/wireless internet routers/microwaves by any chance? hello? what world do they live in), to smart meter in violation of their own privacy information (again, what day-n-age are they living in these days?! smart meter intelligent enough to report that I'm using my chinese-made braun shave everyday @ a quarter past 5?! sheesh!!!)

smart meter has saved our area twice already since they were installed: 2 massive power outages due to wind storm were promptly attend to, w/o even us calling on them.

I'm all for the conservation part: save, save, save.

Sorry, don't mean to jump onboard and rant, just get upset over things happening on the internet.

Q.

MN Renovator · 01-11-12, 10:14 AM

"To smart meter in violation of their own privacy information (again, what day-n-age are they living in these days?! smart meter intelligent enough to report that I'm using my chinese-made braun shave everyday @ a quarter past 5?! sheesh!!!)"

Don't tell those people what the DOE is doing right now for energy star smart grid integration. It will allow your power company to see the setpoint of window A/C and temporarily adjust the temperature, turn on energy saving(turns off the fan if the compressor is off), or even turn off the A/C for a 10 minute period when its needed to prevent a power outage. The smart grid setting can be disabled but when you consider that its only turned on when the power company needs to use it to prevent the purchase of more expensive or dirtier power and to help prevent a power outage due to excessive demand, it makes sense.

...but we'll always have someone yelling about how energy isn't free and unlimited. Unless they have enough solar on their roof, its paid off, and there is plenty of sun out.

TimJFowler · 01-11-12, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strider3700

My reasons for doing what we do on this board are simple. In this order
1 - All of this saves me money on energy which is only getting more expensive. This is good for me and my families pocketbook.
2 - I'm a doomer by nature - I expect things to get far more expensive or just not be available in the future. The less I need to use the better in those situations.
3 - It's good for the environment and I'm thinking about what I'm leaving behind for my kids and hopefully one day grandkids.

Yes, yes and yes. But this perspective isn't widespread yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by strider3700

Then they'd blame the company for making their lifestyles difficult - they have 7 kids, baseboard heating in a 3500 sqft home, walk in fridge/freezers and/or heated barns on farms,... so the company should do something to lower what they pay since their bills are so high.

Of course "They" think this way because they were sold a bunch of conveniences and gadgets with little or no mention of their operating costs or efficiency. Most home improvement / design media (tv shows, magazines, etc.) only makes passing mention of energy use and efficiency, especially on a household scale.

We have grown up in an era of cheap energy and that era is coming to an end. I think that most folks are in denial or unaware of future energy availability, costs and related issues. For many people the transition from energy ignorance to energy awareness will be painful and expensive.

We have a head start on energy efficiency and we can help inform our family, friends and neighbors to make that transition a little easier.

FWIW,
Tim

01-10-12, 04:32 PM	#1
strider3700 Master EcoRenovator Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Vancouver Island BC Posts: 745 Thanks: 23 Thanked 37 Times in 30 Posts	shocked by the general public's thoughts on energy. My reasons for doing what we do on this board are simple. In this order 1 - All of this saves me money on energy which is only getting more expensive. This is good for me and my families pocketbook. 2 - I'm a doomer by nature - I expect things to get far more expensive or just not be available in the future. The less I need to use the better in those situations. 3 - It's good for the environment and I'm thinking about what I'm leaving behind for my kids and hopefully one day grandkids. I don't tend to discuss these things with others outside of this board unless they ask. It's a semi personal thing and I assumed most people felt at least a little bit this way. Recently I found something different. My electricity provider is the only on in the province. THey recently opened up a online forum for customers to give feedback, discuss things.... so I jumped on and made a few posts. I like my new smart meter, I wish we had time of use billing,... basic things. I right away got support from a few others who by what they said had made similar improvements to their homes and were doing a lot to conserve. We all figured we could save money with cheap middle of the night rates. mine and their biggest loads are hotwater, heatpump and clothes dryers. timers and night being colder then day normally means I'd save money. SHortly after we got bashed on by a lot of people. Their basic understanding of the electric system here was shockingly poor. They hate the smart meters due to radiation dangers, privacy concerns and they somehow expect their bills to go up. They hate the possibility of time of use billing because they have zero interest in changing their habits and just see a higher prime time rate as being a cashgrab. They found two tier pricing unfair. They think that the base 6.3 cents/kwh is too expensive and the second tier 9.6 cents/kwh outright gouging. Then they'd blame the company for making their lifestyles difficult - they have 7 kids, baseboard heating in a 3500 sqft home, walk in fridge/freezers and/or heated barns on farms,... so the company should do something to lower what they pay since their bills are so high. I was shocked that this appears to be the majority opinion and most of them couldn't see 10 minutes into the future to see how some minor changes on their part could save them money.

01-11-12, 02:22 AM	#6
strider3700 Master EcoRenovator Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Vancouver Island BC Posts: 745 Thanks: 23 Thanked 37 Times in 30 Posts	go here https://www.yourpowerpoll.ca/Portal/...2fdefault.aspx sign up to be a panelist and it's under the discussions area. They really make it a pain compared to normal forums. Direct linking won't work. I pulled my post from most of the threads on there anyways. Last edited by strider3700; 01-11-12 at 02:25 AM..

01-10-12, 05:51 PM	#3
hamsterpower Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 142 Thanks: 0 Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts	I share your outlook. Don't get too depressed about "most" people. keep in mind, people rarely take time out of there day to agree or give positive feedback, but will go to great lengths to complain. This is why I always pay more attention to good reviews than bad reviews.

01-10-12, 11:31 PM	#4
Ryland Master EcoRenovator Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Western Wisconsin. Posts: 913 Thanks: 127 Thanked 82 Times in 71 Posts	I feel like I live a very sheltered life, my neighbors call me up asking questions about air sealing their house all the time, I tell other people that in the past 3 years we've more then cut our utility bills in half while making our house more comfortable and they ask where to start, even my brother who is pretty main stream will call me up from the home improvement store with questions about LED and CFL bulbs and if getting an energy star rated fridge is good enough. They all seem to have good questions about off peek metering and putting timers on their water heaters, sure some of them want their yellow incandescent light that they can dim down to a pale orange with a dimmer switch and other things I wouldn't bother with, but you pick your battles. Maybe I am sheltered.

01-11-12, 09:39 AM	#7
Quest Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Canada Posts: 109 Thanks: 13 Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts	LOL! already paying the cheepest electricity in the continental NA region (Vancouver, BeeCee) and customers just keep whining about that (still being expensive? Look into their own lifestyle/wastefulness and then start laying casual blame on the world (when will these kids ever grow up and face the real world? makes you wonder). They will come out with all sorts of lame excuses for not conserving energy: from smart meter carrying radiation health hazards (do they also own cell phones/wireless internet routers/microwaves by any chance? hello? what world do they live in), to smart meter in violation of their own privacy information (again, what day-n-age are they living in these days?! smart meter intelligent enough to report that I'm using my chinese-made braun shave everyday @ a quarter past 5?! sheesh!!!) smart meter has saved our area twice already since they were installed: 2 massive power outages due to wind storm were promptly attend to, w/o even us calling on them. I'm all for the conservation part: save, save, save. Sorry, don't mean to jump onboard and rant, just get upset over things happening on the internet. Q.

01-11-12, 10:14 AM	#8
MN Renovator Less usage=Cheaper bills Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 939 Thanks: 41 Thanked 116 Times in 90 Posts	"To smart meter in violation of their own privacy information (again, what day-n-age are they living in these days?! smart meter intelligent enough to report that I'm using my chinese-made braun shave everyday @ a quarter past 5?! sheesh!!!)" Don't tell those people what the DOE is doing right now for energy star smart grid integration. It will allow your power company to see the setpoint of window A/C and temporarily adjust the temperature, turn on energy saving(turns off the fan if the compressor is off), or even turn off the A/C for a 10 minute period when its needed to prevent a power outage. The smart grid setting can be disabled but when you consider that its only turned on when the power company needs to use it to prevent the purchase of more expensive or dirtier power and to help prevent a power outage due to excessive demand, it makes sense. ...but we'll always have someone yelling about how energy isn't free and unlimited. Unless they have enough solar on their roof, its paid off, and there is plenty of sun out.