Using attic heat to warm up basement - Page 8

Exeric · 02-11-14, 05:28 PM

Xringer, it sounds like you're living the Vida Loca in the basement, wearing Hawaiian shirts and listening to Jimmy Buffet cd's - or not. It might be time to accept that your climate is never going provide enough heat on a consistent basis in the attic to provide heat to your basement. Just a thought, though I might be out of line here. Let me know if I am.

Xringer · 02-11-14, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exeric

Xringer, it sounds like you're living the Vida Loca in the basement, wearing Hawaiian shirts and listening to Jimmy Buffet cd's - or not. It might be time to accept that your climate is never going provide enough heat on a consistent basis in the attic to provide heat to your basement. Just a thought, though I might be out of line here. Let me know if I am.

You're right. It's terrible when the roof is covered with snow.
For some reason, snow reflects the sun beams right back into outer space.

But, we do have some days when it's sunny and the system turns on..
Doesn't supply a large amount of BTUs, but it moves out the stale air and deadly Radon gas..

Since it only runs when the humidity is low, it helps keep the basement dry.

Luckily the radon level is staying low. It will jump up when the melting starts
and water table becomes active.

More snow on the way.. And of course it will be preceded by more Zero weather..
Woburn February Weather 2014 - AccuWeather Forecast for MA 01801
Maybe 8 days of sun before March..

I watched it dropping last night and couldn't believe how low those Sanyos can go.. Still cranking out heat when I crashed at 1:45AM..

I was wondering why my temp sensor reported 12.2F and just down the street it was 4.8F

I'm pretty sure radiated heat from the Den is warming the sensor pod..
Need more insulation under there..

The Sanyos were still working at 12.2F, which might have actually been closer to 4.8F !

So, early this morning, I moved the outdoor sensor a few more feet away from the house and tonight it reads 18.3F degrees,
which is very close to the 18.0F at the weather station down the street.

Gonna be cold again tonight. Might be burning oil by midnight..
2- 3- 4- 5- 6- 7- 8- 9- AM
7° 7° 5° 2° 0° 1° 5° 10°

Xringer · 02-24-14, 02:09 PM

Mostly overcast, but still warming up the attic. It's 14 degs warmer than the basement.
It actually takes a little of the 'chill' out of the basement air..

Temperature Sensors
50.9 F Basement
35.6 F Outdoors
64.9 F Attic

The Radon is up a little, and these warm attic days will bring it down..

Xringer · 03-07-14, 11:37 AM

but on these bright sunny days, we are getting 5 or 6 hours of good heating from the attic air.

Last night, it was very cold, but this morning it warmed up fast.
The back-up space heat was on half the night.
The Sanyos were back online at 7:20AM. They were turned off at 10AM, due to solar gain.

Without snow on the northern roof, attic temp climbs quickly.
I changed the software setpoint to Basement Temp+5 deg F.
(Attic must be 5 deg warmer than basement to start ventilation blowers)

Current Temperature Sensors show:

50.7 F Basement (Basement floor is 42.1 F, away from oil burner area).
64.9 F Attic
150.0 F Solar PV water tank

It's warmer in the basement during the day (while blowers are running)
and the radon levels are in the green.

Xringer · 03-09-14, 02:03 PM

It's a dry 40 degrees F outside this afternoon, and with the snow off the northside roofs,
we are seeing some nice attic heat, for most of the daylight hours.

In order to keep the fans from running for the whole day, I'm moving up the setpoint a little bit..
Now, it's set to run the blowers when the attic is 10deg F hotter than the basement..

The PV->DHW tank has been working very well lately. We rarely hear the A7 ASHP come on..
It has been hitting 150F almost every sunny afternoon..

buffalobillpatrick · 03-22-14, 05:54 PM

Xringer, I like your thread, you'r pretty high Tech with the data logging.
I enjoy reading your posts on numerous other threads.

I'm thinking of doing similar thing in my next house I'm designing / building someday.

Hole is dug for basement, with no trees to shade until very late in PM, dark green steel roof 9:12 pitch, about 1200 ft2 faces South.

Location:
80813
Teller County Colorado
Zone 5/B dry
Design temp 2* F
AFI = 2500
Mean Annual Temp. 40* F
HDD 6415
Lat = 38.8*
Altitude 8,800'
Very good Solar many clear Winter days, lots of UV, I can get a sunburn in 30 min. in Winter.

I will attach a quick drawing of mini-attic area below 48' long ridge vent.

Roof is vented on underside of roof sheathing & above R51 insulation.
The vented air will flow into this mini-attic before exit out full length ridge vent.

My question is: do you think this is worth doing?

BBP

buffalobillpatrick · 03-22-14, 05:56 PM

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1395525348

BBP

Xringer · 03-22-14, 06:54 PM

Wow, I just saw a great place to live..

3011 Teller County Road 1, Cripple Creek, CO 80813 - Zillow

1200 sqft of south facing roof?? The very first thing I would be thinking about is PV panels!
Have you given PV any consideration?

The problem I have with snow and lack of sunny days most of the heating season,
makes me reluctant to say what I've done helps with the heating bill..
Mostly the impact is on the Radon in the basement.

However, this is my first 'spring' with the system in place, and so far I like it.
Since the basement is uninsulated, I'm pleased to see the 49F move up to 52F in a partly sunny afternoon.

Even today, when it was mostly cloudy (but got into the low 50s), we had the blower running a few hours. And, that's with the differential setpoint at 15deg F..

One other thing I noticed today. Since the A7 hotwater heater in the basement was really
pulling the basement air temp down, the warm attic air worked very well,
in counteracting the cold air coming out of the A7 ASHP..
Within an hour after the A7 shut down, the basement temp was recovered.

One of these days, (in May?) it's going to start warming up the basement like crazy.
I hope! And I'll have to add a top limit to basement temp..

Of course, that might be wishful thinking on my part..

buffalobillpatrick · 03-22-14, 08:09 PM

My lot is about 2-3 miles South of Florissant Fosil Bed park & 1 mile West off Teller Co 1

Same redish gravel, DG as we call it, Decomposed Granite (high Radon). That listing says Not For Sale?

They call this area a bananna belt, they don't know what they are talkin about because banannas will not grow here. hehe

Yes, PV solar on that roof would work great! but I won't put a bunch of holes in my new Decra shake look steel shingles.

Looking into HD hangers that go on before steel roofing.

So it would be pretty easy to build in the tube, backdraft damper, & pump during construction, but with my ridge vent it may not do much?

BTW, you shouldn't obstruct your gable end vents, they usually barely do the job of removing moisture in Winter.

Radon abatement can involve positive air pressure into basement.

BBP

Xringer · 03-22-14, 10:52 PM

My end vents are wide open and always have been.
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...0slot/peak.jpg

I do have the new ridge vent obstructed about 3 or 4 feet on either side of the air intake in the peak..
Otherwise, I end up pulling cold outdoor air into the basement..

If you cover your roof with PV panels, you won't be getting much direct solar heating.
But the bottom side of PVs get really hot, so there will be considerable radiant heat to the roofing.

I've studied Radon abatement a bit, and I've come to the conclusion that
positive air pressure to the slab can't work in this house,
without replacing the entire slab with a new one. It's got way too much damage.

Besides, I've discovered that my radon levels can be kept low by
relatively small amount of fresh air ventilation.
Radon abatement has been very successful, so far.

02-24-14, 02:09 PM	#73
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	Running good today.. Mostly overcast, but still warming up the attic. It's 14 degs warmer than the basement. It actually takes a little of the 'chill' out of the basement air.. Temperature Sensors 50.9 F Basement 35.6 F Outdoors 64.9 F Attic The Radon is up a little, and these warm attic days will bring it down.. __________________ My hobby is installing & trying to repair mini-splits EPA 608 Type 1 Technician Certification ~ 5 lbs or less..

03-07-14, 11:37 AM	#74
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	Getting some very cold nights here lately but on these bright sunny days, we are getting 5 or 6 hours of good heating from the attic air. Last night, it was very cold, but this morning it warmed up fast. The back-up space heat was on half the night. The Sanyos were back online at 7:20AM. They were turned off at 10AM, due to solar gain. Without snow on the northern roof, attic temp climbs quickly. I changed the software setpoint to Basement Temp+5 deg F. (Attic must be 5 deg warmer than basement to start ventilation blowers) Current Temperature Sensors show: 50.7 F Basement (Basement floor is 42.1 F, away from oil burner area). 64.9 F Attic 150.0 F Solar PV water tank It's warmer in the basement during the day (while blowers are running) and the radon levels are in the green. Attached Thumbnails __________________ My hobby is installing & trying to repair mini-splits EPA 608 Type 1 Technician Certification ~ 5 lbs or less.. Last edited by Xringer; 03-07-14 at 11:42 AM..

03-09-14, 02:03 PM	#75
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	Acttic is really starting to warm up! It's a dry 40 degrees F outside this afternoon, and with the snow off the northside roofs, we are seeing some nice attic heat, for most of the daylight hours. In order to keep the fans from running for the whole day, I'm moving up the setpoint a little bit.. Now, it's set to run the blowers when the attic is 10deg F hotter than the basement.. The PV->DHW tank has been working very well lately. We rarely hear the A7 ASHP come on.. It has been hitting 150F almost every sunny afternoon.. Attached Thumbnails __________________ My hobby is installing & trying to repair mini-splits EPA 608 Type 1 Technician Certification ~ 5 lbs or less..

03-22-14, 05:54 PM	#76
buffalobillpatrick Master EcoRenovator Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Florissant, Colorado Posts: 599 Thanks: 814 Thanked 59 Times in 55 Posts	Xringer, I like your thread, you'r pretty high Tech with the data logging. I enjoy reading your posts on numerous other threads. I'm thinking of doing similar thing in my next house I'm designing / building someday. Hole is dug for basement, with no trees to shade until very late in PM, dark green steel roof 9:12 pitch, about 1200 ft2 faces South. Location: 80813 Teller County Colorado Zone 5/B dry Design temp 2* F AFI = 2500 Mean Annual Temp. 40* F HDD 6415 Lat = 38.8* Altitude 8,800' Very good Solar many clear Winter days, lots of UV, I can get a sunburn in 30 min. in Winter. I will attach a quick drawing of mini-attic area below 48' long ridge vent. Roof is vented on underside of roof sheathing & above R51 insulation. The vented air will flow into this mini-attic before exit out full length ridge vent. My question is: do you think this is worth doing? BBP Last edited by buffalobillpatrick; 03-22-14 at 06:01 PM..

03-22-14, 05:56 PM	#77
buffalobillpatrick Master EcoRenovator Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Florissant, Colorado Posts: 599 Thanks: 814 Thanked 59 Times in 55 Posts	http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1395525348 BBP Attached Thumbnails

02-11-14, 05:28 PM	#71
Exeric Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: California Posts: 274 Thanks: 19 Thanked 37 Times in 28 Posts	Xringer, it sounds like you're living the Vida Loca in the basement, wearing Hawaiian shirts and listening to Jimmy Buffet cd's - or not. It might be time to accept that your climate is never going provide enough heat on a consistent basis in the attic to provide heat to your basement. Just a thought, though I might be out of line here. Let me know if I am.

03-22-14, 06:54 PM	#78
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	Wow, I just saw a great place to live.. 3011 Teller County Road 1, Cripple Creek, CO 80813 - Zillow 1200 sqft of south facing roof?? The very first thing I would be thinking about is PV panels! Have you given PV any consideration? The problem I have with snow and lack of sunny days most of the heating season, makes me reluctant to say what I've done helps with the heating bill.. Mostly the impact is on the Radon in the basement. However, this is my first 'spring' with the system in place, and so far I like it. Since the basement is uninsulated, I'm pleased to see the 49F move up to 52F in a partly sunny afternoon. Even today, when it was mostly cloudy (but got into the low 50s), we had the blower running a few hours. And, that's with the differential setpoint at 15deg F.. One other thing I noticed today. Since the A7 hotwater heater in the basement was really pulling the basement air temp down, the warm attic air worked very well, in counteracting the cold air coming out of the A7 ASHP.. Within an hour after the A7 shut down, the basement temp was recovered. One of these days, (in May?) it's going to start warming up the basement like crazy. I hope! And I'll have to add a top limit to basement temp.. Of course, that might be wishful thinking on my part.. __________________ My hobby is installing & trying to repair mini-splits EPA 608 Type 1 Technician Certification ~ 5 lbs or less.. Last edited by Xringer; 03-22-14 at 10:23 PM..

03-22-14, 08:09 PM	#79
buffalobillpatrick Master EcoRenovator Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Florissant, Colorado Posts: 599 Thanks: 814 Thanked 59 Times in 55 Posts	My lot is about 2-3 miles South of Florissant Fosil Bed park & 1 mile West off Teller Co 1 Same redish gravel, DG as we call it, Decomposed Granite (high Radon). That listing says Not For Sale? They call this area a bananna belt, they don't know what they are talkin about because banannas will not grow here. hehe Yes, PV solar on that roof would work great! but I won't put a bunch of holes in my new Decra shake look steel shingles. Looking into HD hangers that go on before steel roofing. So it would be pretty easy to build in the tube, backdraft damper, & pump during construction, but with my ridge vent it may not do much? BTW, you shouldn't obstruct your gable end vents, they usually barely do the job of removing moisture in Winter. Radon abatement can involve positive air pressure into basement. BBP Last edited by buffalobillpatrick; 03-22-14 at 08:12 PM..

03-22-14, 10:52 PM	#80
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	My end vents are wide open and always have been. http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...0slot/peak.jpg I do have the new ridge vent obstructed about 3 or 4 feet on either side of the air intake in the peak.. Otherwise, I end up pulling cold outdoor air into the basement.. If you cover your roof with PV panels, you won't be getting much direct solar heating. But the bottom side of PVs get really hot, so there will be considerable radiant heat to the roofing. I've studied Radon abatement a bit, and I've come to the conclusion that positive air pressure to the slab can't work in this house, without replacing the entire slab with a new one. It's got way too much damage. Besides, I've discovered that my radon levels can be kept low by relatively small amount of fresh air ventilation. Radon abatement has been very successful, so far. __________________ My hobby is installing & trying to repair mini-splits EPA 608 Type 1 Technician Certification ~ 5 lbs or less..