Cistern - Page 5

oil pan 4 · 10-26-17, 03:49 PM

I was at tractor supply today and saw a 100 gallon rubber made stock tank with drain plug that had a hole punched in the bottom. So I bought it for 30% off.
Perfect for satellite rain water collection on the 600 square foot out building.
I figure at 600 square feet when the rain comes down hard, an inch per hour that's about 1750 gallons per hour, almost never is this sustained usually only lasts 15 or 20 minutes at the most. I will need a pump that can move 30gpm to keep up and not dump water on the ground. A standard sub pump will work. I will need something that can move more than 30gpm since that number was likely obtained by testing the flow at the discharge port.
The 100 gallon tank will be located right next to a subpanel so it will have power.

oil pan 4 · 10-26-17, 06:33 PM

I weighed anchor on the one well. It's a 12.5 inch diameter, 100ft deep dry hole.
Second well has water at 106' and has a TD of about 118'.

jeff5may · 10-27-17, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

I was at tractor supply today and saw a 100 gallon rubber made stock tank with drain plug that had a hole punched in the bottom. So I bought it for 30% off.
Perfect for satellite rain water collection on the 600 square foot out building.
I figure at 600 square feet when the rain comes down hard, an inch per hour that's about 1750 gallons per hour, almost never is this sustained usually only lasts 15 or 20 minutes at the most. I will need a pump that can move 30gpm to keep up and not dump water on the ground. A standard sub pump will work. I will need something that can move more than 30gpm since that number was likely obtained by testing the flow at the discharge port.
The 100 gallon tank will be located right next to a subpanel so it will have power.

That's a lot of equipment to rig up for 500 gallons of water per event. The question is how often do these events happen? It may be more economical to just get an IBC container that can swallow the whole thing.

ecomodded · 10-27-17, 09:54 AM

Its coming together good find on the barrel and handy the well is 100' deep , it might well be tastier then the neighbors deeper wells water too.
Also the volt drop on 100' feet of power line is not so large.

How do you feel about the water depth ? I don't know enough about wells to know if its good or not it sounds good.

oil pan 4 · 10-27-17, 02:08 PM

The main tank is going to be about 8 feet cubed.
Should hold around 7,000 gallons or about 60,000 pounds of water. I should only need 3 total satellite collectors.
Problem is when it doesn't rain for 3 to 9 months the only rain we get comes down in hard short bursts.

If I put water collection around everything I'm looking at up to 3,200 square feet.

Problem is average rain fall is 20 inchs per year, so we really can get between 7 and 30 inches per year.

That depth is not good for around here, the guy next door also has a well that deep, he says after the initial water is gone, his well recovery rate is about 1gpm.
It's better than a dry hole.
So I am going to explore other options like having the 12.5 inch well drilled deeper.
Supposedly if you go down about 340 ft you can run a 5hp 480v 3phase pump as fast as you want and not drop below 50 feet of water.
I would not think twice about dropping up to $2,500 on well drilling. But I have no idea how much it costs.
Could be if I only have $2,500 they would laugh at me.

I recovered a few hundred feet of pump cable so one less thing to buy at least. I also had a lot that was exposed to sun and was ruined, it goes to the scrap yard.

sbkenn · 10-28-17, 05:08 PM

[QUOTE=oil pan 4;56102]At some point I would like to have a stationary backup 1800rpm, liquid cooled kubota diesel generator . I have even been looking for an old timey cast iron radiator to put in the house to cool engine coolant. The only exhaust turbines proven to work are turbo chargers. A turbo charger on a diesel engine will improve fuel economy by 10% to 20%. For 1L kubota I would use a K03 turbo or RHB21 turbo.

I didn't mean a turbo-supercharger, I meant a turbine in the exhaust, to drive a generator. This would use the turbo part of a turbo-supercharger, with the blower replaced with a high-speed brushless, permanent magnet, DC motor..
Turbos harvest heat energy from the exhaust stream, just as an exhaust cooler does. Ideally, the end of the exhaust pipe should be as cool as you can achieve.
As for "proven to work" I doubt tests in the past had access to modern high-speed PM BLDC motors. Exhaust turbines spin at up to 120000RPM, wayy above what a conventional alternator can handle. If you use a turbine intended for larger engines, they will spin slower that the were intended for. There are readily available PM BLDC motors that do 5000RPM/volt, intended for up to 12V.

oil pan 4 · 10-28-17, 09:52 PM

I say turbos are proven to work because I put a turbo on my high compression IDI and got a instant 20% improvement in fuel economy.
I'm not putting on a turbine alternator.
1 I know turbos work
2 I already have the turbo I would use.
3 I could probably build a fleet of 200cc engines driving automotive alternators for what one of these turbine alternators cost.
4 I already have a 200cc engine driving an automotive alternator.
So there is absolutely no point in me wasting my time and money on a turbine alternator that generates 12 or 24v power on a stationary diesel generator.
The turbine alternator just costs too much and doesn't do anything that can't be done with 240v single phase already produced by the main generator.

ecomodded · 10-28-17, 11:23 PM

Could use the exhaust to heat water ...

could be as simple as a loop around a extended exhaust pipe , it would be good for portable hot water or camping hot water

oil pan 4 · 10-29-17, 07:40 AM

I resell used EGR coolers on ebay so I have a good selection.
I actually have the perfect EGR heat exchanger, it came off some kind of large farming tractor engine, I can not identify it which makes it hard to sell and it's the biggest one to find its way into my possession.
When I install a stationary diesel generator I will have exhausted heat recovery.

ecomodded · 10-29-17, 11:39 AM

Nice look forward to seeing the set up it sounds news worthy in my opinion as recovering wasted energy is free energy something we all should be trying for. Conservation on steroids

10-26-17, 06:33 PM	#42
oil pan 4 Land owner Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: NM Posts: 1,026 Thanks: 12 Thanked 127 Times in 107 Posts	I weighed anchor on the one well. It's a 12.5 inch diameter, 100ft deep dry hole. Second well has water at 106' and has a TD of about 118'. Last edited by oil pan 4; 10-26-17 at 07:39 PM..

10-27-17, 09:54 AM	#44
ecomodded Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Vancouver Island,Canada. Posts: 1,037 Thanks: 116 Thanked 100 Times in 87 Posts	Its coming together good find on the barrel and handy the well is 100' deep , it might well be tastier then the neighbors deeper wells water too. Also the volt drop on 100' feet of power line is not so large. How do you feel about the water depth ? I don't know enough about wells to know if its good or not it sounds good. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

10-28-17, 05:08 PM	#46
sbkenn Lurking Renovator Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Ireland Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Turbo [QUOTE=oil pan 4;56102]At some point I would like to have a stationary backup 1800rpm, liquid cooled kubota diesel generator . I have even been looking for an old timey cast iron radiator to put in the house to cool engine coolant. The only exhaust turbines proven to work are turbo chargers. A turbo charger on a diesel engine will improve fuel economy by 10% to 20%. For 1L kubota I would use a K03 turbo or RHB21 turbo. I didn't mean a turbo-supercharger, I meant a turbine in the exhaust, to drive a generator. This would use the turbo part of a turbo-supercharger, with the blower replaced with a high-speed brushless, permanent magnet, DC motor.. Turbos harvest heat energy from the exhaust stream, just as an exhaust cooler does. Ideally, the end of the exhaust pipe should be as cool as you can achieve. As for "proven to work" I doubt tests in the past had access to modern high-speed PM BLDC motors. Exhaust turbines spin at up to 120000RPM, wayy above what a conventional alternator can handle. If you use a turbine intended for larger engines, they will spin slower that the were intended for. There are readily available PM BLDC motors that do 5000RPM/volt, intended for up to 12V. Last edited by sbkenn; 10-28-17 at 05:46 PM..

10-28-17, 09:52 PM	#47
oil pan 4 Land owner Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: NM Posts: 1,026 Thanks: 12 Thanked 127 Times in 107 Posts	I say turbos are proven to work because I put a turbo on my high compression IDI and got a instant 20% improvement in fuel economy. I'm not putting on a turbine alternator. 1 I know turbos work 2 I already have the turbo I would use. 3 I could probably build a fleet of 200cc engines driving automotive alternators for what one of these turbine alternators cost. 4 I already have a 200cc engine driving an automotive alternator. So there is absolutely no point in me wasting my time and money on a turbine alternator that generates 12 or 24v power on a stationary diesel generator. The turbine alternator just costs too much and doesn't do anything that can't be done with 240v single phase already produced by the main generator. Last edited by oil pan 4; 10-29-17 at 07:42 AM..

10-28-17, 11:23 PM	#48
ecomodded Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Vancouver Island,Canada. Posts: 1,037 Thanks: 116 Thanked 100 Times in 87 Posts	Could use the exhaust to heat water ... could be as simple as a loop around a extended exhaust pipe , it would be good for portable hot water or camping hot water __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

10-26-17, 03:49 PM	#41
oil pan 4 Land owner Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: NM Posts: 1,026 Thanks: 12 Thanked 127 Times in 107 Posts	I was at tractor supply today and saw a 100 gallon rubber made stock tank with drain plug that had a hole punched in the bottom. So I bought it for 30% off. Perfect for satellite rain water collection on the 600 square foot out building. I figure at 600 square feet when the rain comes down hard, an inch per hour that's about 1750 gallons per hour, almost never is this sustained usually only lasts 15 or 20 minutes at the most. I will need a pump that can move 30gpm to keep up and not dump water on the ground. A standard sub pump will work. I will need something that can move more than 30gpm since that number was likely obtained by testing the flow at the discharge port. The 100 gallon tank will be located right next to a subpanel so it will have power.

10-27-17, 02:08 PM	#45
oil pan 4 Land owner Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: NM Posts: 1,026 Thanks: 12 Thanked 127 Times in 107 Posts	The main tank is going to be about 8 feet cubed. Should hold around 7,000 gallons or about 60,000 pounds of water. I should only need 3 total satellite collectors. Problem is when it doesn't rain for 3 to 9 months the only rain we get comes down in hard short bursts. If I put water collection around everything I'm looking at up to 3,200 square feet. Problem is average rain fall is 20 inchs per year, so we really can get between 7 and 30 inches per year. That depth is not good for around here, the guy next door also has a well that deep, he says after the initial water is gone, his well recovery rate is about 1gpm. It's better than a dry hole. So I am going to explore other options like having the 12.5 inch well drilled deeper. Supposedly if you go down about 340 ft you can run a 5hp 480v 3phase pump as fast as you want and not drop below 50 feet of water. I would not think twice about dropping up to $2,500 on well drilling. But I have no idea how much it costs. Could be if I only have $2,500 they would laugh at me. I recovered a few hundred feet of pump cable so one less thing to buy at least. I also had a lot that was exposed to sun and was ruined, it goes to the scrap yard.

10-29-17, 07:40 AM	#49
oil pan 4 Land owner Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: NM Posts: 1,026 Thanks: 12 Thanked 127 Times in 107 Posts	I resell used EGR coolers on ebay so I have a good selection. I actually have the perfect EGR heat exchanger, it came off some kind of large farming tractor engine, I can not identify it which makes it hard to sell and it's the biggest one to find its way into my possession. When I install a stationary diesel generator I will have exhausted heat recovery.

10-29-17, 11:39 AM	#50
ecomodded Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Vancouver Island,Canada. Posts: 1,037 Thanks: 116 Thanked 100 Times in 87 Posts	Nice look forward to seeing the set up it sounds news worthy in my opinion as recovering wasted energy is free energy something we all should be trying for. Conservation on steroids __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.