New Global Warming Newsletter-Must READ!! - Page 4

NeilBlanchard · 01-03-12, 10:05 PM

Water, food, energy, climate change, population, biodiversity -- you know, frivolous stuff...

On the Edge of Tomorrow: Global Trends and What They Mean for Conservation - YouTube

Xringer · 01-03-12, 10:58 PM

Was Fox News wrong to report that some people think we might be repeating a past mini-ice-age,
when our government says we could see another long
sun spot minimum, that looks a bit like another 'Maunder Minimum'??

"scientists at the US National Solar Observatory (NSO) and US Air Force Research Laboratory. Three different analyses of the Sun's recent behaviour all indicate that a period of unusually low solar activity may be about to begin."

What I heard in that video (besides "it's hard to say") is, even if there
is a new era of colder weather, Global Climate Change won't be affected..

Sounds like they are saying.. The only thing we (NASA?) know for sure,
is anything that happens on the sun, is never going to effect Global Climate Change.
Nothing is going to interfere, it's going to happen, it can't be stopped.

I'm positive those NSO & USAFRL guys didn't even want to 'think'
about any affects their forecasted solar weather might have on
our weather earthly during a long sun spot minimum.

I'm also pretty sure that no one is going to ask for a grant
to study the CERN Cloud experimental data, so they can create
computer models that can collate sun spot history to weather history
and use these new NSO solar weather predictions to help forecast our long term climate here on earth.

Not likely to get funding, since it might pull money away from grants to "study" the effects of Climate Change on the Fruit Fly etc..

After last winter, I think it would be nice to know if I need to install
more ice-melt wires on my roof.. Be nice to plan ahead, even if it's
only going to be 5 or 10 more years of extreme winters..

It took about ten years of fighting to get the Cloud experiment started..
The reason? Because "Believers" wanted it killed.

I don't wonder why.

AC_Hacker · 01-03-12, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xringer

Was Fox News wrong...?

Now we have the true source of the disinformation problem.

Xringer, you might be very interested in this:

Fox News viewers less informed about current events, poll shows

...and here's another one:

A Law Against Lying on the News

You are devouring disinformation and coughing it up here, all over a forum where people actually do know what is going on, and are ready to make changes in how they live to make things better for everyone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xringer

I'm just trying to point out, there are other viewpoints around...

So let me put this another way, it like you have chosen to attend a vegetarian pot luck, and you have decided to bring a bushel of cow feces as your contribution.

...and now you'd like us to think you are just trying to be helpful?

Who are you kidding?

-AC

NeilBlanchard · 01-04-12, 05:32 AM

Yes, Fox News is mischaracterizing the situation, badly. Please view the video I posted here:

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/conser...html#post18792

Even if we get another sunspot minimum, that will be swamped by just 7 years or so of our current carbon dioxide output.

The Arctic ice is melting very quickly -- much more quickly than the scientists had originally predicted; and we are finding out more about the amplifying effects, like lowered albedo, and melting tundra, and methane releases.

Xringer · 01-04-12, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

Yes, Fox News is mischaracterizing the situation, badly. Please view the video I posted here:

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/conser...html#post18792

Even if we get another sunspot minimum, that will be swamped by just 7 years or so of our current carbon dioxide output.

The Arctic ice is melting very quickly -- much more quickly than the scientists had originally predicted; and we are finding out more about the amplifying effects, like lowered albedo, and melting tundra, and methane releases.

I did watch the video and it seemed like Fox news was being spanked
for doing what TV news normally does.

I was just reading a global warming paper (pdf) and it looks like the warming
has been going on for over 100 years* now. And getting worse recently.

And, there is a reason it's getting worse.. Feed-back!

The way I understand the impending warming era,
is, any* amount of warming causes some amount of melting,
which releases greenhouse gasses from the soil under the ice..

That released gas goes into the upper atmosphere, where it causes
the greenhouse effect, which melts more ice, causing more gas release.

It's a self generating / positive feedback loop, which can only end when
most of the CO2 has been released from the soil.. The Earth runs out of gas! LOL!

Because of the 'gain' of the feedback, it seems like it's going to get a lot worse, a lot faster.
Those predictions of it being a few degrees warmer in another 50 years,
might be in error, by a very large amount..

A very depressing read. I'm going to go finish my Dirk Pitt novel..

NeilBlanchard · 01-04-12, 06:48 PM

Not all news organizations are like Fox News, rest assured. News Corporation which owns Fox has been hacking into cell phones in the UK (at least, and probably everywhere) and not only listening to messages, but also deleting messages. They are working on a law (in Florida?) to make it a crime to lie on the news, because that is what Fox very often does. They just make stuff up. And they have fired reporters because of the stories they reported on were on things like how growth hormones used on cows to produce more milk give you cancer, and Fox was getting strong armed by Monsanto.

Fox has used Lord Monckton and Pat Michaels and others all the time and these guys are not good scientists -- they are shills for oil companies. Lord Monckton is almost laughable, if he wasn't spreading bunk about this serious issue.

Anthropogenic climate change is settled science. We have been spewing a lot of carbon since about 1850-60, but most of it since about 1980. The carbon dioxide level has been increasing since we started burning coal, and then oil and gas. There are still questions we need to answer -- that is how science works, it raises new questions as we learn about the old questions. But that doesn't mean that we don't know the we humans are causing this climate change. We have direct proof of this, and it is the only way to explain the data.

The direct proof is in the isotopes of carbon in the atmosphere -- they could only have come from carbon fuels.

Xringer · 01-04-12, 08:23 PM

It's too bad it's all settled.. Now that the feed-back loop has started,
there is probably no way to stop it. We only have a short time left,
before we all get killed by global warming..
It's good they are teaching this to kids in grammar school..
Showing them Al Gore's movie.. No need to get their exceptions up.
Their days are numbered and they need to know it by the 3rd grade..

Oh well, time for a beer and some light reading..

Xringer · 01-04-12, 08:39 PM

I remember seeing that News Corp phone hacking scandal on the news..
It sounds like the person who authorized the hacking must have the IQ of a carrot.
How could anyone think they could get away with committing those felonies,
without sooner or later, the whole world crashing down on their heads??

What could have been their motive? Do they just love the idea of being in prison??

NeilBlanchard · 01-04-12, 08:51 PM

It is critical that we do something, because we can have an affect. We started the ball rolling, but by the same token, we can work to reverse what we have started. It won't be easy and it will be painful, but as moral beings we have to try.

Paul Gilding in his book "The Great Disruption" talks about an approximate time line of 5 or 6 years of status quo before we hit a big tipping point, and then very aggressive reduction of carbon output over the next 25-30 years, followed by as much carbon sequestration as we can muster.

We need to take the 2C increase very seriously, and we must not pass ~450ppm or all hell will really break loose. We need to return back down to <350ppm to avoid the worst effects. The equilibrium we had for ~65,000 years was ~270ppm.

When and if we can do this, the world won't be back to what we had, because there is real and lasting damage to biodiversity, but it will probably settle down.

We and all life are the results of all life that has come before us. We would not even have oxygen in the air without plants splitting water in photosynthesis. Each and every molecule in our bodies has been part of myriad other life forms before. Each and every drop of water has been cycling through life forms, the soil, and the rocks of this planet -- over and over and over and over again and again and again... The oxygen carrying iron in our blood came from the stars. The soil itself was produced by all of life down through the eons.

This is a balanced and efficient and bountiful cycle. The carbon we have so blithely thrown into the atmosphere in less than 2 centuries was packed away underground over a couple of billion years. We have made a very basic change, and we must take responsibility for it.

Xringer · 01-05-12, 11:32 AM

Dang, I was pretty happy this morning.. Then I had to look at those PDF charts again.

It sure seem like there is nothing we can to do stop it..

Don't look at this, if you are already depressed or have ever considered hanging yourself..
http://www.rep.org/Hayhoe_Climate.pdf

Right now, the only thing I can think of that might save us (or give us some extra years),
is to get the world on nuclear power.
Liquid fluoride thorium reactor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But, the anti-nuke (anti-everything?) folks would never permit it..
I guess they want civilization to end. And, we've got to go along with them,
for the sake of the endangered snails etc..

Haha.. If a few more birds get killed by wind turbines, we can kiss wind power goodbye..

01-03-12, 10:58 PM	#32
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	Was Fox News wrong to report that some people think we might be repeating a past mini-ice-age, when our government says we could see another long sun spot minimum, that looks a bit like another 'Maunder Minimum'?? "scientists at the US National Solar Observatory (NSO) and US Air Force Research Laboratory. Three different analyses of the Sun's recent behaviour all indicate that a period of unusually low solar activity may be about to begin." What I heard in that video (besides "it's hard to say") is, even if there is a new era of colder weather, Global Climate Change won't be affected.. Sounds like they are saying.. The only thing we (NASA?) know for sure, is anything that happens on the sun, is never going to effect Global Climate Change. Nothing is going to interfere, it's going to happen, it can't be stopped. I'm positive those NSO & USAFRL guys didn't even want to 'think' about any affects their forecasted solar weather might have on our weather earthly during a long sun spot minimum. I'm also pretty sure that no one is going to ask for a grant to study the CERN Cloud experimental data, so they can create computer models that can collate sun spot history to weather history and use these new NSO solar weather predictions to help forecast our long term climate here on earth. Not likely to get funding, since it might pull money away from grants to "study" the effects of Climate Change on the Fruit Fly etc.. After last winter, I think it would be nice to know if I need to install more ice-melt wires on my roof.. Be nice to plan ahead, even if it's only going to be 5 or 10 more years of extreme winters.. It took about ten years of fighting to get the Cloud experiment started.. The reason? Because "Believers" wanted it killed. I don't wonder why. __________________ My hobby is installing & trying to repair mini-splits EPA 608 Type 1 Technician Certification ~ 5 lbs or less..

01-04-12, 08:23 PM	#37
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	It's too bad it's all settled.. Now that the feed-back loop has started, there is probably no way to stop it. We only have a short time left, before we all get killed by global warming.. It's good they are teaching this to kids in grammar school.. Showing them Al Gore's movie.. No need to get their exceptions up. Their days are numbered and they need to know it by the 3rd grade.. Oh well, time for a beer and some light reading.. __________________ My hobby is installing & trying to repair mini-splits EPA 608 Type 1 Technician Certification ~ 5 lbs or less..

01-04-12, 08:39 PM	#38
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	I remember seeing that News Corp phone hacking scandal on the news.. It sounds like the person who authorized the hacking must have the IQ of a carrot. How could anyone think they could get away with committing those felonies, without sooner or later, the whole world crashing down on their heads?? What could have been their motive? Do they just love the idea of being in prison?? __________________ My hobby is installing & trying to repair mini-splits EPA 608 Type 1 Technician Certification ~ 5 lbs or less..

01-05-12, 11:32 AM	#40
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	Dang, I was pretty happy this morning.. Then I had to look at those PDF charts again. It sure seem like there is nothing we can to do stop it.. Don't look at this, if you are already depressed or have ever considered hanging yourself.. http://www.rep.org/Hayhoe_Climate.pdf Right now, the only thing I can think of that might save us (or give us some extra years), is to get the world on nuclear power. Liquid fluoride thorium reactor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia But, the anti-nuke (anti-everything?) folks would never permit it.. I guess they want civilization to end. And, we've got to go along with them, for the sake of the endangered snails etc.. Haha.. If a few more birds get killed by wind turbines, we can kiss wind power goodbye.. __________________ My hobby is installing & trying to repair mini-splits EPA 608 Type 1 Technician Certification ~ 5 lbs or less..

01-03-12, 10:05 PM	#31
NeilBlanchard Journeyman EcoRenovator Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth Posts: 383 Thanks: 78 Thanked 39 Times in 32 Posts	Water, food, energy, climate change, population, biodiversity -- you know, frivolous stuff... On the Edge of Tomorrow: Global Trends and What They Mean for Conservation - YouTube

01-04-12, 05:32 AM	#34
NeilBlanchard Journeyman EcoRenovator Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth Posts: 383 Thanks: 78 Thanked 39 Times in 32 Posts	Yes, Fox News is mischaracterizing the situation, badly. Please view the video I posted here: http://ecorenovator.org/forum/conser...html#post18792 Even if we get another sunspot minimum, that will be swamped by just 7 years or so of our current carbon dioxide output. The Arctic ice is melting very quickly -- much more quickly than the scientists had originally predicted; and we are finding out more about the amplifying effects, like lowered albedo, and melting tundra, and methane releases.

01-04-12, 06:48 PM	#36
NeilBlanchard Journeyman EcoRenovator Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth Posts: 383 Thanks: 78 Thanked 39 Times in 32 Posts	Not all news organizations are like Fox News, rest assured. News Corporation which owns Fox has been hacking into cell phones in the UK (at least, and probably everywhere) and not only listening to messages, but also deleting messages. They are working on a law (in Florida?) to make it a crime to lie on the news, because that is what Fox very often does. They just make stuff up. And they have fired reporters because of the stories they reported on were on things like how growth hormones used on cows to produce more milk give you cancer, and Fox was getting strong armed by Monsanto. Fox has used Lord Monckton and Pat Michaels and others all the time and these guys are not good scientists -- they are shills for oil companies. Lord Monckton is almost laughable, if he wasn't spreading bunk about this serious issue. Anthropogenic climate change is settled science. We have been spewing a lot of carbon since about 1850-60, but most of it since about 1980. The carbon dioxide level has been increasing since we started burning coal, and then oil and gas. There are still questions we need to answer -- that is how science works, it raises new questions as we learn about the old questions. But that doesn't mean that we don't know the we humans are causing this climate change. We have direct proof of this, and it is the only way to explain the data. The direct proof is in the isotopes of carbon in the atmosphere -- they could only have come from carbon fuels.

01-04-12, 08:51 PM	#39
NeilBlanchard Journeyman EcoRenovator Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth Posts: 383 Thanks: 78 Thanked 39 Times in 32 Posts	It is critical that we do something, because we can have an affect. We started the ball rolling, but by the same token, we can work to reverse what we have started. It won't be easy and it will be painful, but as moral beings we have to try. Paul Gilding in his book "The Great Disruption" talks about an approximate time line of 5 or 6 years of status quo before we hit a big tipping point, and then very aggressive reduction of carbon output over the next 25-30 years, followed by as much carbon sequestration as we can muster. We need to take the 2C increase very seriously, and we must not pass ~450ppm or all hell will really break loose. We need to return back down to <350ppm to avoid the worst effects. The equilibrium we had for ~65,000 years was ~270ppm. When and if we can do this, the world won't be back to what we had, because there is real and lasting damage to biodiversity, but it will probably settle down. We and all life are the results of all life that has come before us. We would not even have oxygen in the air without plants splitting water in photosynthesis. Each and every molecule in our bodies has been part of myriad other life forms before. Each and every drop of water has been cycling through life forms, the soil, and the rocks of this planet -- over and over and over and over again and again and again... The oxygen carrying iron in our blood came from the stars. The soil itself was produced by all of life down through the eons. This is a balanced and efficient and bountiful cycle. The carbon we have so blithely thrown into the atmosphere in less than 2 centuries was packed away underground over a couple of billion years. We have made a very basic change, and we must take responsibility for it.