5 Ton GSHP Build - Page 4

Mikesolar · 09-24-13, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randen

Fellow Eco-renovators

Look at the crate that showed up. Three nice sized new Brazed plate heat exchangers. Two will be to rebuild the 5 Ton heat-pump. I had found the tube and shell HX that I built was marginal in capacity so purchased some more appropriate BPHX. The HX were built to order with the proper brazed connections on the refrigerant side. and pipe thread on the loop side.

The third BPHX is going to be used for the house solar hot water. I'll post the activities on this install in another post

Looking forward To having the 3ph control for the compressor. And hopefully some really good COP.

Randen

Do the HX have distributors on the vapour outlets? Quite important. Also, once you have checked them out for quality, please let us know who to order from. Alpha Laval is a bit pricy

randen · 02-04-14, 01:57 PM

Picked up some free insulation board and had the table saw set-up. An item that will be nessisary for the 5 Ton rebuild an insulation box for the heat exchangers. I fab'ed up some boxes that will slip over after the BPHX are soldered inplace.

Recovered the R290 BBQ gas refrigerant while on the other-side of the shop soldering up some more risers for the shop solar hot water system.

Randen

AC_Hacker · 02-04-14, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randen

Picked up some free insulation board and had the table saw set-up. An item that will be nessisary for the 5 Ton rebuild an insulation box for the heat exchangers. I fab'ed up some boxes that will slip over after the BPHX are soldered inplace.

Great progress!

There's a buddy of mine named Howard that has a CNC shop, just down the road from me.

His Architect-Wife insisted on a high-end custom refrigerator for $7000 (not a misprint) to go with her Architect Kitchen Dream. After a few fitful years, it crapped out and she's hankering to go buy another one exactly the same, so it will go with her kitchen design. So Howard now figures he has $7000 to do a total re-design and rebuild of the refrigerant system on their old unit.

He had decided that for his first voyage into the tumultuous HVAC seas, he is going to go with a three-phase compressor and a variable speed drive and an Electronic Expansion Valve, all controlled by A Raspberry Pi microcomputer.

Pretty ambitious for a 78 year old guy!

Personally, I think that there is some chemical in CNC machine lubricants that make a man just plain crazy...

What do you think?

-AC

NiHaoMike · 02-04-14, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AC_Hacker

His Architect-Wife insisted on a high-end custom refrigerator for $7000 (not a misprint) to go with her Architect Kitchen Dream. After a few fitful years, it crapped out and she's hankering to go buy another one exactly the same, so it will go with her kitchen design. So Howard now figures he has $7000 to do a total re-design and rebuild of the refrigerant system on their old unit.

Pretty sure you could just swap the condensing unit (if that's what failed) on one of those commercial refrigerators for "cheap".

randen · 02-06-14, 10:38 AM

AC_Hacker

Personally, I think that there is some chemical in CNC machine lubricants that make a man just plain crazy...

What do you think?

AC_Hacker I think your on to something there. I believe it's something like my boy's Spiderman movie. CNC is like radio-active Spider Venom. With CNC you can now make things better and stronger that will last for decades.

"With great power comes great responsibilities." Now you look at everything. I Can make that a whole lot better. Toilet paper holder, Fancy Stainless wine rack, LED light fixture. The list grows. And the more you do the more you find.

Like Spiderman you find yourself fighting crime of poorly manufactured goods in the shop.

What a life.

Randen

randen · 04-08-14, 09:39 PM

Or maybe a more appropriate tittle 5 Ton rebuild again. The compressor was liberated from the housing as its too small for the new brazed plate heat exchangers. The chore for the day is to fit up the copper tubing. A bit more fitting is left to be done.
The little 2 ton kept the shop tolerable for most of this cold winter. I didn't want to change it out in the depth of winter just in-case the 5 ton didn't work-out. The nice thing is it kept it tolerable quite inexpensively.

I want to change it out with the 5 ton soon as the nights can still be quite cold and I can get a good idea on its performance.

Randen

NiHaoMike · 04-08-14, 10:06 PM

The discharge should enter at the top and the liquid exit at the bottom.

AC_Hacker · 04-09-14, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NiHaoMike

The discharge should enter at the top and the liquid exit at the bottom.

Randen,

I think he might be right... gravity is your friend.

Just to make sure, you might consult a couple of Brazed Plate HX manufacturer's manuals.

I believe that it is most important for the condenser side, and I have seen recommendations both ways for the evaporator side.

Beautiful tubing work, BTW.

From the pix, I can't tell if you've brazed your tubing to the fittings on the BPHXs.

Best,

-AC

randen · 04-09-14, 08:00 AM

Hmmm

Yes hot liquid or gas entering the top and cooling (condensing) and falling exiting the bottom so only liquid enters the TXV.

I was thinking the condenser must fill with the liquid and purge all the gas through as the liquid rises in the BPHX. This would mean the BPHX must be full of liquid but in some conditions this may not happen.

Nothing is brazed or soldered at this point. Just a rough fitting. Today hopefully the mounting for the BPHX and compressor. We will have to see what's in the stainless scrap bin.

Randen

Mikesolar · 04-09-14, 09:29 AM

Yup, switch the ports. Your liquid line filter won't work that well either. What are you using for SS to copper brazing?

02-04-14, 01:57 PM	#32
randen Uber EcoRenovator Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Strathroy Ontario Canada Posts: 657 Thanks: 9 Thanked 191 Times in 129 Posts	5 Ton GSHP Build Picked up some free insulation board and had the table saw set-up. An item that will be nessisary for the 5 Ton rebuild an insulation box for the heat exchangers. I fab'ed up some boxes that will slip over after the BPHX are soldered inplace. Recovered the R290 BBQ gas refrigerant while on the other-side of the shop soldering up some more risers for the shop solar hot water system. Randen Attached Thumbnails Last edited by Daox; 02-04-14 at 03:55 PM..

02-06-14, 10:38 AM	#35
randen Uber EcoRenovator Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Strathroy Ontario Canada Posts: 657 Thanks: 9 Thanked 191 Times in 129 Posts	AC_Hacker Personally, I think that there is some chemical in CNC machine lubricants that make a man just plain crazy... What do you think? AC_Hacker I think your on to something there. I believe it's something like my boy's Spiderman movie. CNC is like radio-active Spider Venom. With CNC you can now make things better and stronger that will last for decades. "With great power comes great responsibilities." Now you look at everything. I Can make that a whole lot better. Toilet paper holder, Fancy Stainless wine rack, LED light fixture. The list grows. And the more you do the more you find. Like Spiderman you find yourself fighting crime of poorly manufactured goods in the shop. What a life. Randen Last edited by randen; 02-06-14 at 12:41 PM..

04-08-14, 09:39 PM	#36
randen Uber EcoRenovator Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Strathroy Ontario Canada Posts: 657 Thanks: 9 Thanked 191 Times in 129 Posts	5 Ton GSHP Build Or maybe a more appropriate tittle 5 Ton rebuild again. The compressor was liberated from the housing as its too small for the new brazed plate heat exchangers. The chore for the day is to fit up the copper tubing. A bit more fitting is left to be done. The little 2 ton kept the shop tolerable for most of this cold winter. I didn't want to change it out in the depth of winter just in-case the 5 ton didn't work-out. The nice thing is it kept it tolerable quite inexpensively. I want to change it out with the 5 ton soon as the nights can still be quite cold and I can get a good idea on its performance. Randen Attached Thumbnails Last edited by Daox; 04-09-14 at 09:03 AM..

04-08-14, 10:06 PM	#37
NiHaoMike Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,154 Thanks: 14 Thanked 257 Times in 241 Posts	The discharge should enter at the top and the liquid exit at the bottom. __________________ To my surprise, shortly after Naomi Wu gave me a bit of fame for making good use of solar power, Allie Moore got really jealous of her...

04-09-14, 08:00 AM	#39
randen Uber EcoRenovator Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Strathroy Ontario Canada Posts: 657 Thanks: 9 Thanked 191 Times in 129 Posts	Hmmm Yes hot liquid or gas entering the top and cooling (condensing) and falling exiting the bottom so only liquid enters the TXV. I was thinking the condenser must fill with the liquid and purge all the gas through as the liquid rises in the BPHX. This would mean the BPHX must be full of liquid but in some conditions this may not happen. Nothing is brazed or soldered at this point. Just a rough fitting. Today hopefully the mounting for the BPHX and compressor. We will have to see what's in the stainless scrap bin. Randen

04-09-14, 09:29 AM	#40
Mikesolar Master EcoRenovator Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Toronto Posts: 958 Thanks: 40 Thanked 158 Times in 150 Posts	Yup, switch the ports. Your liquid line filter won't work that well either. What are you using for SS to copper brazing?