11-18-10, 02:11 PM | #351 | ||
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Quote:
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These are not small aluminum chunks. these are huge earthen cylinders weighing many, many tons each. You do the math. How much does an earthen cylinder weigh that has a diameter of 15 feet and is 50 feet deep? [...average density of dirt is 120 lbs per cubic foot...] Regards, -AC_Hacker |
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11-18-10, 02:14 PM | #352 |
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PEX Copper VS HDPE HDPE wins
Most things that were said were theory but reality is simple
HDPE wins over PEX and Copper because: 1. It is cheapest compere to PEX and copper. 2. It does not corrode like copper and PEX fittings 3 It is proven (all formulas and calculations are based on its properties) HVAC equipment MUST work 20-25 years (radiant floor part- 50 years) and not 5 or 10. You have no way to test reliability of copper and pex. Many houses were built using copper tubing inside concrete slabs for heating. Most of them leaked 10-15 years later. Copper fails even indoors you want to use it outdoors??? If you want to reinvent the wheel I would rather use your energy on something more useful. |
11-18-10, 02:19 PM | #353 | |
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11-18-10, 02:54 PM | #354 | |
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Holes & Trenching
Quote:
Only, if you set your holes slightly off of the trench line, you can trench very close to the holes, so you only have a very few inches to dig by hand. Sixteen holes and no pipes hit! Regards, -AC_Hacker |
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11-18-10, 03:16 PM | #355 | |
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This is a really good resource. Although the FAQ is metric and is really brief, most of the important considerations are there. The Chinese are doing some really interesting things in the field of GSHP. -AC_Hacker |
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11-18-10, 04:50 PM | #356 | |||
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Fair enough! It's just strange I've never heard of it. Here in Michigan it's not uncommon to live or work in a building erected more than a century ago, and still be using original plumbing. Quote:
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Nope! I already have that. But my second purpose is to question conventional wisdom and think outside the box. I have found my purpose in this thread, however. I just know that a lot of conventional wisdom is boooooogus. I work in the IT industry and know that much of what is though to be written in stone is bogus. Someone wrote an article or book or someone did a study funded by a corporation looking to make money, and the results are passed around like truth without question. |
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11-18-10, 05:22 PM | #357 | |
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I'm not concerned with the longevity of the system, I don't plan to live here more than a a few more years. So advising me to not TRY copper tubing for my project based on the premise of longevity isn't a reasonable argument. I guess my point is saying "there are some points to consider before choosing a ground loop material" is far different from "copper won't work." Last edited by pick1e; 11-18-10 at 05:25 PM.. |
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11-18-10, 09:56 PM | #358 |
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bore holes without welds
There was a discussion on another forum
that might be useful to some on this one. Someone with the handle FBBP speculated on what would happen if we could find a way to directionally drill two wells some distance apart to meet at X and than fish the loop down one and up the other My reply was... I have been thinking about this...and I may do one (pair) of these even if I end up having a commercial driller do the first 2 wells. My thoughts are 2 ways: 1. drill two boreholes 6" diam, 18' down, just 12-14" apart...that's about 18" on center. (Note, I only had time to go 18" down, one hole so far, so I cannot speak from experience. Maybe Sunday I'll do the second hole :-) My drill is based on a 6" diam. drain pipe, so that's my diameter. I am using a 3/4" black pipe for a drill shaft. There is a female hose coupler at the top. Basically hoping to pressure wash my way to China. Or at least 18' down. I just got the coupler, so this part is not yet tested. Need to add a valve... The drill shaft is up to 20' of 3/4" black pipe. Put an elbow at the end, it will go to the bottom of the bore, and turn it on. (Mark the pipe so you know which way it is "drilling") Use shop vac to collect water and mud. (see caution about shopvac in next post) Repeat from the other hole. 6 + 6 = 12. Watch for the water in the original hole. A 20' 2x4 may be needed to oppose the equal and opposite forces.... Again, not speaking from experience, but Aluminum adaptor plates for electric cars have been cut with a water laser...so dirt ought to be easy enough. 2. Other approach. As the original poster said. Dig 2 bore holes...start 5' - 10' apart, do some math, and angle them toward each other the right amount. This is hard, only for Math Majors. sine, cosine, or arctangent or all of the above. If you do it right, you will make a Vee and not need the elbow mentioned above for breaking through. It would be imporant to soften the inside of the V so it doesn't hurt the pipe. Left as as exercise for the creative people who try this. Next post for benefits...! |
11-18-10, 09:58 PM | #359 |
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I mentioned a hose and shop vac....
I saw a Youtube on drilling with two hoses and 2"x20' pvc and shop vac. One small piece of Wisdom gained from experience... When using a shop vac, it's good to use a Collection bin of some sort, so the Vacuum can pull, but it can't pull the mess into the motor. I may use the old shopvac for this. (guess how it became the "old one"?) That's the advice I got from google how to protect my new shopvac (thanks for the shopvac Craigslist!). Also, unplug tool before emptying tub, lest the top flip over and turn on and suck mud into the motor. (enjoy :-) |
11-18-10, 10:10 PM | #360 |
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Benefits/drawbacks to linking 2 boreholes
As a follow-up to the idea of using two bore holes
near each other with an underground link. (At this time, I am not evaluating whether proximity reduces efficiency.) (note, I worked for a few years in Rockefeller Center, a complex of 19 commercial buildings that are connected by an underground mall :-) Now, being an IT guy and a DIY home renovator, and with 15 years of experience "fishing" wires with the wrong tools and the right tools, the next part is easy. Fish a pull string from one hole to the other and pull it up. Tennis ball may help. Or, put an elbow on the 2"pvc shopvac extension. As in Perl, there is more than one way to do it. Attach an end to a pipe and pull ( gently). (Lubricate - with water?) Actually, push the pipe down while guiding it with the pull string. The Advantage to this is, I can have a vertical bore with no weld. I hate to harp on this, but I TRIED to learn to weld to make battery racks, until my friend described the metallurgic drawbacks of welding. Drilling and bolting makes fewer stress points. And requires fewer skills. Another thought... We originally thought to have a U tube in the hole. Now we have an "l" in the tube. Maybe we could have an || ? Two parallel loops in passing through the same PAIR of bore holes. The question is, should water in the pipe flow the same direction in both, or perhaps they should be in opposite directions - one will be transferring the most heat in the top of the hole and the other in the bottom? (or, in my design, one is doing more in hole A and the other in hole B) My reasoning with two loops passing through each pair of boreholes is to not forfeit the linear footage. The above question of flow direction highlights the thought I had that each pipe should be labelled on each end that will emerge into the basement.. but even labelled IN and OUT so that you know. Also label your diagram to match, so that if a leak is detected at the manifold, you can refer to the diagram to see just what to dig up. Hope this help spark more thought on this... Seth |
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air conditioner, diy, gshp, heat pump, homemade |
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