Inefficient home or inefficient GSHP? - Page 3

mechanic · 12-18-14, 08:08 AM

I never thought of disabling the second stage, I'll have to try

mechanic · 12-18-14, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

I like the recirculating pump on a switch.
.

Just put it on a smart plug off the thermostat, they measure usage, you can set on times or just use the manual timed on feature. Didn't have to do any wiring that way

randen · 12-18-14, 09:43 AM

Mechanic

I see yes its a 6 Ton. That's a good sized unit. How many square feet are you heating?? For comparison we heat 3600 sq ft 90% of the time with 3 Ton water to water Climate Master.

I'm sure you realize as the temp drops in the field loop temp the heating output drops and compressor may never quit. Its awesome you have your loop buried 8-9 ft. and you were able to DIY.

For our area 600 ft of tubing / ton MINIMUM. that's 3600 ft. for 6 Ton. I realize the factor changes slightly when you size up your tube from 3/4- 1 1/2 But over kill here is a good idea.

My loops here are now supplying a temp of 10 C Deg. and its just hovering around 0 Deg. but we have had some cold snaps. For the depths of winter 10C dropping to 6C generally and like I said I did see 3 degrees. That was at the end of a long cold winter and I had noticed the run time was increased dramatically.

If you have lots of tubing in the ground you should be collecting a lot of heat.

What do you have for a loop pump center???

One other thing popped into mind. Is there a possibility the ground loop is uneven and you have a tube or two with a trapped air bubble impeding the flow. The purging of the loop is very important and it takes some pump horsepower and volume to ensure the loop is clear and loaded with coolant. The contractor must have a pump cart with a good size pump to perform this crucial set-up. If not you may only have one clear tube supplying heat.

It may be worth having another reputable contractor in to assure you have no air trapped in that loop somewhere.

Randen

mechanic · 12-18-14, 01:27 PM

The house is 1800sq ft so 3600 with basement and the 600sq ft garage loop shares the same trenches.

I used the most popular contractor around here, they've been in business for a long time and have done many installs. I wasn't here when they filled the lines though...

So I have 3200' of 1.5 inch pipe then, does it normally just make one big loop? I know mine had a header at 300' splitting it into 4 different trenches then manifold back into one line again, maybe the flow is uneven... I'll try and get a good temp reading tonight as I only have the end of winter reading from the contractor.

Here's a pic of my pump unit

mechanic · 12-18-14, 01:28 PM

Here is one of the pumps itself

mechanic · 12-18-14, 01:40 PM

I forgot to mention, the soil is mostly heavy clay, went through a couple spots of sand/water on two of the trenches but mostly clay

randen · 12-18-14, 01:56 PM

Mechanic

I have two concerns. That flow center is the non pressurized type. If your ground loop is completely void of air (purged properly) they work fine. However a pressurized type will compress the bubbles and make it a lot easier to get them out.

I'm sorry but 3200 ft. would not even make minimum here for 6 tons. You had mentioned 1 1/2 which has more surface area than 3/4 and usually it's sized accordingly. But you are in a much harsher climate. I would have to do some resrch but it seems a little short.

Big loop no, but it will work. Typically a header and parallel loops on the end. The more loop the better and HDPE is cheap, it's the excavating that's pricey.

Randen

randen · 12-18-14, 02:01 PM

Mechanic

Clay is the best. Lets consider trying a couple things. Let monitor the loop temps for the season and I would also suggest having someone purge the system again. This can be done any time. Is there anyone else around with geo-thermal you know. Maybe for your area you could get an idea what the loop temps are in real time. -3 doesn't look good??

Randen

mechanic · 12-18-14, 06:51 PM

Well that's kind of frustrating, I said I'd rather do overkill, specially since I was digging it. Normally I would do the research and do it myself but I was already tackling the basement at the time/ it was right in the middle of our busiest season at work/our old place had been sold/etc... Oh well.

Took some temp measurements with my multimeter after about 10min runtime
6.1 deg Celsius coming in
3.7 deg Celsius going out

mechanic · 12-18-14, 06:56 PM

Seem kinda low? Especially since winter hasn't officially even started yet?

12-18-14, 01:27 PM	#24
mechanic Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Saskatchewan, Canada Posts: 117 Thanks: 10 Thanked 16 Times in 12 Posts	The house is 1800sq ft so 3600 with basement and the 600sq ft garage loop shares the same trenches. I used the most popular contractor around here, they've been in business for a long time and have done many installs. I wasn't here when they filled the lines though... So I have 3200' of 1.5 inch pipe then, does it normally just make one big loop? I know mine had a header at 300' splitting it into 4 different trenches then manifold back into one line again, maybe the flow is uneven... I'll try and get a good temp reading tonight as I only have the end of winter reading from the contractor. Here's a pic of my pump unit Attached Thumbnails Last edited by mechanic; 12-18-14 at 01:36 PM..

12-18-14, 01:28 PM	#25
mechanic Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Saskatchewan, Canada Posts: 117 Thanks: 10 Thanked 16 Times in 12 Posts	Here is one of the pumps itself Attached Thumbnails

12-18-14, 08:08 AM	#21
mechanic Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Saskatchewan, Canada Posts: 117 Thanks: 10 Thanked 16 Times in 12 Posts	I never thought of disabling the second stage, I'll have to try

12-18-14, 09:43 AM	#23
randen Uber EcoRenovator Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Strathroy Ontario Canada Posts: 658 Thanks: 9 Thanked 192 Times in 130 Posts	Mechanic I see yes its a 6 Ton. That's a good sized unit. How many square feet are you heating?? For comparison we heat 3600 sq ft 90% of the time with 3 Ton water to water Climate Master. I'm sure you realize as the temp drops in the field loop temp the heating output drops and compressor may never quit. Its awesome you have your loop buried 8-9 ft. and you were able to DIY. For our area 600 ft of tubing / ton MINIMUM. that's 3600 ft. for 6 Ton. I realize the factor changes slightly when you size up your tube from 3/4- 1 1/2 But over kill here is a good idea. My loops here are now supplying a temp of 10 C Deg. and its just hovering around 0 Deg. but we have had some cold snaps. For the depths of winter 10C dropping to 6C generally and like I said I did see 3 degrees. That was at the end of a long cold winter and I had noticed the run time was increased dramatically. If you have lots of tubing in the ground you should be collecting a lot of heat. What do you have for a loop pump center??? One other thing popped into mind. Is there a possibility the ground loop is uneven and you have a tube or two with a trapped air bubble impeding the flow. The purging of the loop is very important and it takes some pump horsepower and volume to ensure the loop is clear and loaded with coolant. The contractor must have a pump cart with a good size pump to perform this crucial set-up. If not you may only have one clear tube supplying heat. It may be worth having another reputable contractor in to assure you have no air trapped in that loop somewhere. Randen

12-18-14, 01:40 PM	#26
mechanic Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Saskatchewan, Canada Posts: 117 Thanks: 10 Thanked 16 Times in 12 Posts	I forgot to mention, the soil is mostly heavy clay, went through a couple spots of sand/water on two of the trenches but mostly clay

12-18-14, 01:56 PM	#27
randen Uber EcoRenovator Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Strathroy Ontario Canada Posts: 658 Thanks: 9 Thanked 192 Times in 130 Posts	Mechanic I have two concerns. That flow center is the non pressurized type. If your ground loop is completely void of air (purged properly) they work fine. However a pressurized type will compress the bubbles and make it a lot easier to get them out. I'm sorry but 3200 ft. would not even make minimum here for 6 tons. You had mentioned 1 1/2 which has more surface area than 3/4 and usually it's sized accordingly. But you are in a much harsher climate. I would have to do some resrch but it seems a little short. Big loop no, but it will work. Typically a header and parallel loops on the end. The more loop the better and HDPE is cheap, it's the excavating that's pricey. Randen

12-18-14, 02:01 PM	#28
randen Uber EcoRenovator Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Strathroy Ontario Canada Posts: 658 Thanks: 9 Thanked 192 Times in 130 Posts	Mechanic Clay is the best. Lets consider trying a couple things. Let monitor the loop temps for the season and I would also suggest having someone purge the system again. This can be done any time. Is there anyone else around with geo-thermal you know. Maybe for your area you could get an idea what the loop temps are in real time. -3 doesn't look good?? Randen

12-18-14, 06:51 PM	#29
mechanic Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Saskatchewan, Canada Posts: 117 Thanks: 10 Thanked 16 Times in 12 Posts	Well that's kind of frustrating, I said I'd rather do overkill, specially since I was digging it. Normally I would do the research and do it myself but I was already tackling the basement at the time/ it was right in the middle of our busiest season at work/our old place had been sold/etc... Oh well. Took some temp measurements with my multimeter after about 10min runtime 6.1 deg Celsius coming in 3.7 deg Celsius going out

12-18-14, 06:56 PM	#30
mechanic Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Saskatchewan, Canada Posts: 117 Thanks: 10 Thanked 16 Times in 12 Posts	Seem kinda low? Especially since winter hasn't officially even started yet?