My DIY Solar Experience and Break Even Calculations

[pinballlooking]

Congrats!
Very exciting to see it up and running.

[ecomodded]

Its nice hearing of peoples success with Solar

Im curious how many summer watts I would need to have 1,200 watts on overcast winter days.
Would like enough power to run a 12000 Btu 20 seer heat pump for 6 to 8 hours a day.

[antdun]

My home was within the 90% coverage zone of the solar eclipse yesterday and you can see the effect of the solar eclipse on my solar array in the picture below

[MiriamNZ]

Originally Posted by mab

Hi,
I'm hoping to retire in a year or so and will likely relocate and hope to install solar.

I was visiting a friend when the solar salesman was there. He used a very different logic to judge value for money that makes sense when you are retiring.

If you have money in the bank earning interest— how much do you get?
If you used that money to install solar, how much money would you save in the same period of time?

Makes sense, if the money is in the bank, especially when interest rates are dropping and unpredictable over the next decade.

Cheers
Miriam

[dablack]

Antdun,

I love your project and I do think solar and a leaf go great together but I wouldn't use the gas savings money in your calculations unless you add the cost of the car to your initial capital investment.

If you already have a gas car, are you selling it? What is it worth? How much for a leaf that you like. Maybe the one for $6k came from Houston (flooded) and you really don't want that. Who knows.

What I'm saying is, you are taking parts of a picture and now the whole picture. If you start using the benefits of the leaf in your calculation, then you need to use all the numbers from the leaf and sale of your old car. Also, as you said, I would add in the cost of oil changes from your old car. Finally, is there a difference in insurance cost between your old car and the leaf?

Again, great project.

[jeff5may]

Originally Posted by MiriamNZ

I was visiting a friend when the solar salesman was there. He used a very different logic to judge value for money that makes sense when you are retiring.

If you have money in the bank earning interest— how much do you get?
If you used that money to install solar, how much money would you save in the same period of time?

Makes sense, if the money is in the bank, especially when interest rates are dropping and unpredictable over the next decade.

Cheers
Miriam

For many, the short-term payback does not justify a large initial investment. As with the current economy, the vast majority would rather lease or push long-term debt into the far future. For the retired, the concepts of reverse mortgages and annuities illustrate the same line of reasoning. In this case, I would ask the question: "Does the system save more than the extra loan (or annuity) payment?" In most cases, it does, even when a turnkey system is professionally installed.

For the rest, the decision-making process isn't so straightforward. It takes a lot of faith to pay out 5 figures on anything. The whole issue of self-generation has been polarized and propagandized by the power and oil empires, as a matter of self-preservation. Average Americans in general are completely addicted to the electric and gas lines running into their homes. Breaking this lifelong addiction doesn't come easy, especially without some sort of unconditional guarantee.

[antdun]

Originally Posted by dablack

Antdun,

I love your project and I do think solar and a leaf go great together but I wouldn't use the gas savings money in your calculations unless you add the cost of the car to your initial capital investment.

If you already have a gas car, are you selling it? What is it worth? How much for a leaf that you like. Maybe the one for $6k came from Houston (flooded) and you really don't want that. Who knows.

What I'm saying is, you are taking parts of a picture and now the whole picture. If you start using the benefits of the leaf in your calculation, then you need to use all the numbers from the leaf and sale of your old car. Also, as you said, I would add in the cost of oil changes from your old car. Finally, is there a difference in insurance cost between your old car and the leaf?

Again, great project.

Great point. I was just assuming that I'd have a car regardless of solar so I didn't think to include it's purchase price in the break even calculation. I'm planning to get a used 2013 SV or SL model which I've found in my local classifieds for around $8,000. I sold my gas car (2011 Hyundai Sonata 2.0T) and used that cash to purchase the solar panel equipment with the intention of switching the car to electric. My Sonata sold for about $8,000 so they're at the same price point. I'm currently commuting to work on my motorcycle or our one family car when it's snowing. I intend to purchase the LEAF once I get my tax return next year or as soon as I've saved enough to buy one. Not having to change the oil or other engine related maintenance is going to be awesome!

[ctgottapee]

Good point on including the car in the savings...

In can be a difficult calculation. The true cost/savings should be based on the differential, not just the cost of the Leaf, ie how much more you are paying per term based on what you would have paid for the old car and any replacement.

Your solar installation has some of these variables, like the 200amp panel upgrade; a cost but also comes with additional benefits and it's a further investment in the home.

One cost to consider is property taxes on increased home value - you are including a return of some of those taxes via solar based credits. You will also carry some additional insurance liability along with slightly higher premiums.

Your electrical upgrade may even get you an insurance discount, although it will be possibly negated by any premium increase to cover the increase in insured value.

[antdun]

***UPDATE 3 years later***
In late July 2019 I added an additional 3,600 Watts of panels so now I have a 9.98 kW solar array and the power production is fantastic! If you'd like to see a YouTube video I made about my expansion and it's costs watch it here: https://youtu.be/YJClQ6P1YIo as well as a video I made regarding the original installation https://youtu.be/XXqE_glr69g I now have a Nissan LEAF and a Tesla Model S as well as a Cybertruck reservation to replace the LEAF. My solar array produces enough now to offset all my household power consumption as well as powering both my cars with energy to spare. It's such an awesome place to be!

A year of energy production from the 6.38 kW array produced 10,446 kWh of electricity and a year of production from the 9.98 kW array produced 16,492 kWh of electricity. At 10.9 cents per kWh (average here in Utah) my solar is now producing $1,797 worth of electricity per year which means we'll break even in about 5.42 years. So far we've managed to consume nearly all the electricity it has produced. I've had some Tesla friends come over to charge near the end of the net metering period to use up excess energy (in Utah it's use it or lose it), so I've only lost about 468 kWh due to my solar net metering balance resetting.

Now regarding that break even point, that 10.9 cents per kWh figure is just the Utah average. The actual pricing is block based and more complicated to figure out since consumption amounts vary by month and whatnot. In brief though on average my power production is 1,374 kWh per month and based on Utah's block rate that average month would cost $134 vs the 10.9 cents per kWh average that same 1,374 kWh would cost $149 so my estimated break even point might be a little optimistic. Regardless of the technicalities I'll break even in about half the time it would have taken if I'd paid someone to install it for me and I'll have many decades to come of free power production. Three years later I'm still super happy I went solar and especially that I DIY'd it for such a great price!

[pinballlooking]

Nice... I watch the video nice install.
I 100 agree EV cars a solar really go well together.
have you figured out your saving form not buying gas now?