09-01-10, 10:25 AM | #281 | |||
Supreme EcoRenovator
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Quote:
Here is the 'V-shaped' tool I built for welding the HDPE: ...also pictured here: ...and again here: Although it could certainly be improved, it worked well enough for my purposes. I used hose clamps on each side, one side was tightened down to keep the HDPE from moving, the other end was left just loose enough so the HDPE could be slid into contact position after the fusion surfaces had been melted. Under favorable conditions I was able to do the welding by myself, but it worked much better with a helper, who held the hot melting tool, while I concentrated on the HDPE. Quote:
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But again, my methods can certainly be improved upon, and I am looking forward to seeing what you come up with. Best of Luck, -AC_Hacker Last edited by AC_Hacker; 09-01-10 at 10:30 AM.. |
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09-14-10, 02:14 AM | #282 |
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HDPE fusion is not something to play with
AC_Hacker sorry for criticism.
When you build heating system you should keep in mind that it will run for at least 20-25 years. This is why HDPE fusion must be 100% reliable. I think it is like the weakest link in the chain. It will snap somewhere down 150 feet below. And Murphy’s Law is still here. I am personally going to use socket fusion technique. Fittings are cheap. Here is the link Hdpe Supply: Hdpe Fittings, Polyethylene Pipe, Fusion Equipment They have everything you need and even U-bends, which is specially design for vertical loops. The socket fusion tool (new with all adapters) 300$ on eBay. After you use it you might sell it at discount price. Even if you loose 150$ on it it is still not to much for safety and reliability of whole system. |
09-14-10, 02:44 AM | #283 |
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My drilling rig
I tried 5hp electric motor, but it looks like it is not enough power for my hydraulic system (you get more pressure you lose flow and etc.) . I bought 15 hp gas engine instead. I had to change mounting frame and some hoses. I will try to post some pics. The machine still has electric motor, which is replaced with gas one by now. Sorry about mess around. I just do not have time for cleanup now. Cleanup is my winter project. The reason I wanted to use electric motor is simple. I did not want to kill my neighbors and my family(we have 7 month old boy) with noise from gas engine. But looks like I have no choice. I will buy a box of ear plugs for everybody and a case of beer for neighbors
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09-14-10, 02:55 AM | #284 |
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Radiant floors design
My inside the house part is almost done except final connections and outside loop. I was thinking what type of radiant floors to use. I did not want to concrete because it would add more then 20 ton of weight. I did not want to go under sub-floor because of efficiency and drilling joists. I used some kind of hybrid system. I will post pics and details later.
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09-14-10, 12:39 PM | #285 | |||||
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Vlad, good work, keep going...
Vlad, thanks for sending along the pictures. Each one is worth more than 1000 words.
You have done a lot of good work already, and you have much work ahead of you. The forces you are working with are considerably more powerful than what I was using, so again, safety is very important. You are doing the right thing in scaling up your equipment. What I made was really too light for the job. It's a miracle I was able to do what I did. Quote:
The formula for water pressure at depth is: pressure = depth times 15 divided by 33 So for me, since I went down 17 feet, it would be pressure = (17 * 15) / 33 = 7.73 psi (technically, you should add 14.7psi for atmospheric pressure) pressure = 7.73 psi + 14.7 psi = 22.43 psi (There will also be an additional pressure from your circulation pump, so I'll guess that to be 10 psi) pressure = 7.73 psi + 14.7 psi +10 psi = 32.43 psi ...and I did test every joint at 100 psi. In your case, since you want to go down 150 feet, pressure = (150 * 15) / 33 = 68.2 + 14.7 + 10 = 92.9 psi That's certainly more pressure. (* ...but butt welded joints are surprisingly strong *) Quote:
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The weight of a suspended radiant floor is a real problem. I have a friend that gave me about 50 pounds of aluminum chips to experiment with as an alternate aggregate for concrete. I did some tests but found that it did improve conductivity, but unfortunately it reacted badly with the concrete and foamed up like bread dough... a real disaster. There was a guy from Eastern Europe that posted on this blog who built up a hydronic floor out of sheetrock, among other things. I never did hear back from him, but it's an interesting idea. Quote:
Good luck, Vlad keep the reports coming in. People learn as much from mistakes as they do from successes, so be sure and tell us the WHOLE story. (* * * where do you get earplugs for a 7 month old boy? * * *) Best Regards, -AC_Hacker Last edited by AC_Hacker; 09-14-10 at 10:14 PM.. Reason: grammar |
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09-16-10, 01:27 AM | #286 |
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20 tonne of extra weight is optimistic
I needed over 15 cubic yards of concrete. I live in BC Canada I tried to find light fill but I could not. Add hassle, concrete pump, (my house is 3 store) 4 workers to spread. And the worst: if one of them cracks the pipe while walking on them then you have extra headache how to fix that. I could do room by room no rush no hassle. I will find pics of my design and you will see all benefits especially for DIY. Concrete floors give you some benefits like your floor fills very solid and thermal capacity. But cons are:
1 heavy (you might need structural changes) 2 DIY installation almost impossible (unless 1 floor and small) 3 expensive 4 if something goes wrong very hard to fix 5 you need to prepare everything and do it all together 6 thermal capacity or mass in my case is not beneficial because our mild climate (BC Canada) allows to set back thermostat during day time giving extra savings. With concrete floor you start heating your house in fall and stop in spring. Set back is not practical. 7 to install hardwood floor is again extra cost because you will need special glue to glue it down to concrete. |
09-16-10, 02:09 AM | #287 |
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Pics for inside loop design
I found them
Firs I rolled foil over the sub floor, then I nailed 1x2 every 12 inches, I put 1x2 in pairs with 1 inch gap between them. I put omega (omega is the best do not use u-shape omega shape locks pex and holds it I stapled only plates on each end) heat transfer plates (they are pure aluminum). Tubes are locked in plates (this plates are usually used for under joist installation) This is just bigger view. The missing spot in the middle is island in the kitchen (there is no point to heat it up) I covered tubes with 5/8 floor plywood painted black from the bottom (just for fun) |
09-16-10, 02:19 AM | #288 |
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Inside design
Please post your comments about my(I do not claim it) design. I do not know how it will work. I do not see the reason for it not to work. It is something between under joist and concrete fill installation. Price-wise it is not cheap because you need heat transfer plates and you need double up your sub floor. I think it will be more efficient than under joist and concrete. It is really DIY friendly you can do it room by room. Floor feels much more solid because of plywood "sandwich".
Last edited by Vlad; 09-16-10 at 02:22 AM.. |
09-16-10, 01:21 PM | #289 |
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I think you are doing great work!
Here's a link to a project that is similar. And here is a page about people who have made their own heat spreaders. ...I wrote to the guy who did it and never got a reply, but you might have better results than I did. I think that the style of heated floor you are making is called 'built up'. Here's a great resource for hydronic flor heating. ...and from that document, here's a graphical display of the improvement that the aluminum spreaders make as compared to staple up. Obviously a big improvement. I'd like to know what the diameter of your PEX is, and how long your runs are, and what size pumps you will be using. Keep up the great work. Regards, -AC_Hacker Last edited by AC_Hacker; 09-16-10 at 01:59 PM.. |
09-16-10, 05:28 PM | #290 |
Lex Parsimoniae
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Wow, impressive work! I might do that in my den..
No basement under my den, so the floor gets cold in winter. I read this: "6 thermal capacity or mass in my case is not beneficial because our mild climate (BC Canada)allows to set back thermostat during day time giving extra savings. With concrete floor you start heating your house in fall and stop in spring. Set back is not practical. " That got me thinking that your thermal mass is basically the water in the pipe, the pipe, the (thin aluminum) radiator and the flooring lumber. Then I noticed some air space between the pipes (and radiator metal). If you wanted to add a small amount of thermal mass to your floor, without adding a lot of weight, you could add some stone-like, heat absorbing material in those empty slots. Maybe some cheap Ceramic Tiles? It might give you a bit of the benefits of a heavier thermal mass, but would still heat up pretty quickly, when the set-back came on. When I have used a setback with my forced hot-water (from oil) system, I always had the set-back kick in, 30 to 60 minutes before the last person left for work. Since the house would still be warm almost an hour after the pump stopped. So, the last person leaving the house would still be comfortable. |
Tags |
air conditioner, diy, gshp, heat pump, homemade |
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