The world is watching California open the way for the development of clean electricit - Page 2

u3b3rg33k · 11-10-18, 03:40 AM

well, in FL it's not cheaper to put in solar, because FP&L hates all things solar.

oil pan 4 · 11-11-18, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by where2

If solar power is so expensive, why am I getting at least half a dozen solar power plant proposals across my desk at work every year in a state with NO mandate and quota for renewable energy? My state government has even banned the use of the phrase "climate change" and "global warming" (as if speaking the phrase was the cause of the problem??). These aren't DIY homeowner PV arrays, these are 500 acre 75MW zero emission power plants. These PV plants are being built after the power company has already upgraded most every power plant they have to modern NG turbine setups, which given the recent boom in NG production in the USA has made those NG powered systems cheap to run.

Could my power company be gearing up for the next inning in this game where carbon emitters start having to carry some of the cost for their emissions, and a PV array sitting on a former orange grove looks like power to the people without CO2 emissions??

Easy.
When you need to handle peak load for 4 or 5 hours it's likely cheaper to put in solar panels than it is to build natural gas turbines that are only going to be ran for 4 or 5 hours a day.

HI is a monument to unsustainability. Literally anything would be an improvement over shipping coal or oil 2000 miles to generate power.

oil pan 4 · 11-11-18, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u3b3rg33k

well, in FL it's not cheaper to put in solar, because FP&L hates all things solar.

They only hate it when regular people have solar.
If they own it they love it.

u3b3rg33k · 10-06-19, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by olivermasson99

The fact is, its not possible for commercial and specially industrial sector to use renewable energy but i think on residential scale it would be best for the future of the world and humanity to go solar.
Save the Planet, Go Solar.

I'd love to see some numbers to back up that "fact".

oil pan 4 · 11-25-19, 03:53 AM

California is doing everything they can to make renewable energy go hand in hand with black outs and wild fires.

Mikesolar · 01-24-20, 07:32 PM

I think you guys are missing some points here. First, to compare solar, wind etc with fossil fuels you have to base the investment over the lifetime of the generator, such as 20 years to be simple about it. Solar and wind are already at less than $.04/kwh which is cheaper than gas in most places. The big companies have to do this so it is only fair that we do it as well.

Second thing is that we do NOT have 15 years to get out energy house in order. We literally have 10 years before it is too late to reverse it so leaving it to the market alone is not appropriate. The only reason China is leading in nearly every renewable technology is because the govt is forcing them to do it. We have to stop believing the market is the only way.

Thirdly, our idea of cheap power is usually based on coal or gas and they do not add in the environmental factors and cleanup in their numbers. By that measure, solar is cheaper and we should allow for that. We need to understand that perhaps the real, all in, cost of energy is more than what we pay now

jjackstone · 01-25-20, 09:47 AM

It's hard for governments to give up oil and gas because of the revenue streams they provide not just in terms of for the country itself, but also padding their own pocket books. I've read that the fossil fuel industry makes a profit worldwide of about $10,000,000,000 per day. I can't prove that, but it's probably in the ballpark. Who would want to lose that type of money to a new industry? Additionally for those who are able to afford to power their own homes with with renewables, that is revenue that is (at least currently) untaxable.

There are always the people that say something can't be done. Sixty years ago people thought it was impossible to go to the moon until someone said yes we can...and then we did. It is my totally prejudiced opinion that all we need to eliminate the use of most fossil fuels is the person that says yes we can and pushes our country hard in that direction. I also believe that we will never completely eliminate the use of fossil fuels because of how many industries they serve. Almost every computer, car(even if electric), toy, bicycle and device we use today has some plastic in it. Plastic is made almost exclusively from oil and natural gas. Plastics are light weight and pretty durable. Maybe one day someone will figure out a better material to use for our every day lives. OK. Soapbox done.
JJ

gadget · 02-05-20, 11:38 PM

The sad truth is everyone was fooled with all this CO2 nonsense while the real destruction from pesticides and other chemicals do real damage among other problems like GMO crops. We have been distracted.

We are at 400ppm CO2, if we go lower then 280ish, all life on earth will end. If anything, we need a bit more CO2.

Don't worry about this CO2 scam. Learn the science and stop using poilitiions and hollywood nut jobs for your knowledge. CO2 has a very small affect on our temperature percentage wise. The sun is what controls our temperature. We are going into a major cooling phase according to NASA as we enter into the next grand solar minimum. Don't be a fool, we need to stop wasting time on the CO2 scam and focus on what is really important like getting rid of Round Up and adjusting our grow zones for the grand solar minimum.

jeff5may · 02-06-20, 02:51 PM

Different fight, same situation on top. Seed saving is outlawed, farmers have to buy seeds from the same company as chemicals. Software has invaded the vehicles, so field repair is costly. Many independent farmers are switching back to old dumb tractors and implements that don't have brain boxes. Most independent farmers have alternate income streams besides farming.

pinballlooking · 02-06-20, 03:05 PM

Those farmers need to have the right to repair their tractors.
Just like the did for cars a few years ago.

02-06-20, 03:05 PM	#20
pinballlooking Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: SC Posts: 2,923 Thanks: 172 Thanked 564 Times in 463 Posts	Those farmers need to have the right to repair their tractors. Just like the did for cars a few years ago. __________________ Current project Aquaponics system , Passive Solar Greenhouse build To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Solar Install 12.5 Kwh- To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Mini Split installs - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. EV Chevy Volt - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

11-10-18, 03:40 AM	#11
u3b3rg33k Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Rustbelt, USA Posts: 114 Thanks: 5 Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts	well, in FL it's not cheaper to put in solar, because FP&L hates all things solar.

11-25-19, 03:53 AM	#15
oil pan 4 Land owner Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: NM Posts: 1,026 Thanks: 12 Thanked 127 Times in 107 Posts	California is doing everything they can to make renewable energy go hand in hand with black outs and wild fires.

01-24-20, 07:32 PM	#16
Mikesolar Master EcoRenovator Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Toronto Posts: 958 Thanks: 40 Thanked 158 Times in 150 Posts	I think you guys are missing some points here. First, to compare solar, wind etc with fossil fuels you have to base the investment over the lifetime of the generator, such as 20 years to be simple about it. Solar and wind are already at less than $.04/kwh which is cheaper than gas in most places. The big companies have to do this so it is only fair that we do it as well. Second thing is that we do NOT have 15 years to get out energy house in order. We literally have 10 years before it is too late to reverse it so leaving it to the market alone is not appropriate. The only reason China is leading in nearly every renewable technology is because the govt is forcing them to do it. We have to stop believing the market is the only way. Thirdly, our idea of cheap power is usually based on coal or gas and they do not add in the environmental factors and cleanup in their numbers. By that measure, solar is cheaper and we should allow for that. We need to understand that perhaps the real, all in, cost of energy is more than what we pay now

01-25-20, 09:47 AM	#17
jjackstone Helper EcoRenovator Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sacramento,Ca Posts: 88 Thanks: 5 Thanked 32 Times in 23 Posts	It's hard for governments to give up oil and gas because of the revenue streams they provide not just in terms of for the country itself, but also padding their own pocket books. I've read that the fossil fuel industry makes a profit worldwide of about $10,000,000,000 per day. I can't prove that, but it's probably in the ballpark. Who would want to lose that type of money to a new industry? Additionally for those who are able to afford to power their own homes with with renewables, that is revenue that is (at least currently) untaxable. There are always the people that say something can't be done. Sixty years ago people thought it was impossible to go to the moon until someone said yes we can...and then we did. It is my totally prejudiced opinion that all we need to eliminate the use of most fossil fuels is the person that says yes we can and pushes our country hard in that direction. I also believe that we will never completely eliminate the use of fossil fuels because of how many industries they serve. Almost every computer, car(even if electric), toy, bicycle and device we use today has some plastic in it. Plastic is made almost exclusively from oil and natural gas. Plastics are light weight and pretty durable. Maybe one day someone will figure out a better material to use for our every day lives. OK. Soapbox done. JJ

02-05-20, 11:38 PM	#18
gadget Helper EcoRenovator Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Northern Utah Posts: 49 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	The sad truth is everyone was fooled with all this CO2 nonsense while the real destruction from pesticides and other chemicals do real damage among other problems like GMO crops. We have been distracted. We are at 400ppm CO2, if we go lower then 280ish, all life on earth will end. If anything, we need a bit more CO2. Don't worry about this CO2 scam. Learn the science and stop using poilitiions and hollywood nut jobs for your knowledge. CO2 has a very small affect on our temperature percentage wise. The sun is what controls our temperature. We are going into a major cooling phase according to NASA as we enter into the next grand solar minimum. Don't be a fool, we need to stop wasting time on the CO2 scam and focus on what is really important like getting rid of Round Up and adjusting our grow zones for the grand solar minimum.

02-06-20, 02:51 PM	#19
jeff5may Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: elizabethtown, ky, USA Posts: 2,431 Thanks: 431 Thanked 619 Times in 517 Posts	Different fight, same situation on top. Seed saving is outlawed, farmers have to buy seeds from the same company as chemicals. Software has invaded the vehicles, so field repair is costly. Many independent farmers are switching back to old dumb tractors and implements that don't have brain boxes. Most independent farmers have alternate income streams besides farming.