hi, im designing a wind turbine - Page 2

meescha · 10-06-15, 04:49 PM

well it seems im pretty much going to have to build one of those commercial wind turbines, which have blades big enough to do what i need at low wind speeds or go with a hybrid system that relies on both wind and solar, or go strictly solar.

well according to google fairbanks recieved 4 hours of sunlight in the winter, im not so much concerned about the summers alot of solar energy there, im nore concerned about the winter, how much of that 4 hours can be harvested, and what kind of a solar system would i be looking at, that can be used for those 4 hours? that could supply 10 kw, i will generally only use 5 kw, but id rather have more when needed.

where2 · 10-06-15, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meescha

im nore concerned about the winter, how much of that 4 hours can be harvested, and what kind of a solar system would i be looking at, that can be used for those 4 hours? that could supply 10 kw, i will generally only use 5 kw, but id rather have more when needed.

An 8kW PV array in Fairbanks, AK situated with 180° azimuth, and 65° tilt would generate roughly the following monthly output:

January: 148kWh

February: 449 kWh

March: 901 kWh

April: 1,200 kWh

May: 1,078 kWh

June: 977 kWh

July: 939 kWh

August: 892 kWh

September: 650 kWh

October: 471 kWh

November: 244 kWh

December: 37 kWh

December is going to be tough... Modifying the tilt to 87° only adds 2kWh to December.

I generated this data using PV Watts on the nrel.gov website.

meescha · 10-07-15, 07:30 AM

thats very helpfull thanks where2
well im most likely going to still have to do solar, and find out where the nearest grid is, i wont be purchasing the land till summer next year, so i may have to choose land thats near a grid. but i my hosue is 150 feet away from the nearetst power pole, the price to have grid hooked up will go up dramatically, from googling the price for 1 mile is supposedly 80-100k, so if i hook up to the grid ill have to plan accordingly, 80-100k is a bit much, tho tbh for 100k what kind of solar panels could i get lol.
ive read about micro hydro but again thats probably not so good in the winter when the ice could be a few feet thick, no water = no electricity.

does anyone know of any other solutions at least for the winter? or is hooking up to the grid my only option?

Robaroni · 10-07-15, 08:10 AM

Meescha,

HAWT is more efficient than VAWT but VAWT's are easier to build and don't have the furling requirements of HAWT's.

From the wind data it looks like your location is a poor wind decision, sorry, there's no easy way to put it.

You can build your own but once you start getting up to and over 10 foot blades (wood is fine) you are introducing stresses and design requirements that take several built windmills to understand.

Wind is attractive, it looks so easy and we can see it spinning around but it's a bear to do right, take a look at the failures in commercial designs.
Using a crane to hoist a 300 lb windmill up 80 feet isn't just a one time thing. Windmills are mechanical and that means service. Bearings fail, blades fail and alternators fail. They fail when the weather is the worst, the little buggers!

MY suggestion after living with alternatives for several years is to go PV. Prices are under a dollar a watt for systems today and you'll get more bang for your buck than any windmill ever made.
Don't mount your modules on a roof unless you don't have the ground area, snow will kill your output for months. Put them on poles, especially in Alaska where the latitude angles are steep in the winter when you want that snow to slide off the modules. ( I use a foam brush on a long pole to clean off my ground modules and I'm good all winter in the Western Catskills of NY - 42 latitude). Besides if you have a problem nothing is worse then climbing on a roof with 2 feet of snow cover, I've been there!

Once you learn how to live with PV you can experiment with wind which compliments PV, by the way, if you still want to but living with alternatives is a learning curve that you can't get fully out of books.

I started like you, I built my house and then put in a 1400 watt PV system to learn from. Today (10 years later) I have 10.6 Kw's and because I took my time not too many mistakes.

I'm just getting to implement wind (I've been monitoring my wind for years with a high quality monitor, I suggest you do the same) and hydro here so don't rush, that's when you make mistakes.

Rob

Daox · 11-03-15, 12:12 PM

Any updates on the project meescha?

Bicycle Bob · 11-04-15, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meescha

Hi jeff5may,

Thank you that wind speed graph is very usefull, do you have any other suggestions for electricity, i thought about solar but in the winter, well the lowest average daylight it sais is 4 hours, but considering you drive a little bit more north and theres 0 daylight in the winter, how much of that 4 hours can be harvested using solar panels? plus wouldnt solar panels be a bad idea, cause theyd get snow covered?

other then solar and wind are there any other options?

At those latitudes, you can set your solar panels vertical, but the snow is usually dry enough to blow off anyway. Reflection from the snow will help make up for the angle, but you can't produce any vitamin D when the sun cutting that much air, and panels perform poorly too.
Most of your neighbors will probably be storing summer solar in biomass for winter use.
Historically, heavy equipment has not been necessary to home construction. Even large masses can be moved by hand. I recommend camping on your land for at least a year to study it and other local habitations before building a foundation. By June you have to learn to sleep before it gets dark.
One caveat on wind towers: Don't attach them to your habitation unless you love noise. If I was going with wind, I'd find a hill where I could have a pond both top and bottom. I'd use micro-hydro to produce power on demand from under the ice, and replenish the upper pond with tanks of water drawn up a railway by kite power.

Robaroni · 11-04-15, 03:49 PM

Meesha,
Sorry if you posted it and I missed it but what is your land acreage? Also do you have streams, steep hills, etc?

Rob

WisJim · 11-04-15, 08:51 PM

The best source of info for owner-built wind turbines is Other Power, Wind Power | Otherpower
They offer workshops that include actually building a working machine in about 6 days and they have a good book covering the machines and their construction and design. If I was going to build a wind turbine I would follow their designs.

I have however been using a 1940s 2.5kw Jacobs since around 1977 and it is an extremely reliable machine. But--today PVs are so cheap compared to even a few years ago that unless you are in a very good wind site it isn't worth considering a wind turbine instead of PVs. By a "good wind site" I usually mean at least 10 to 12 mph average wind in the vicinity and a site for the tower with no surrounding trees or buildings and the ability to have a tower at least 120 feet tall or taller. And remember no matter what the sales pitch might be, all wind turbines require maintenance, usually at least an annual inspection and bolt tightness check, and this can't be done from the ground.

nibs · 11-05-15, 08:08 PM

Having designed and built approximately 600 small wind turbines in the early 1980's I can assure you that the only way to even approach useful power from a turbine, under the conditions you describe, is to build a horizontal axis "drag" machine. think American standard windmill, the type you see pumping water on farms. The blades are flat plates with a high angle of attack, there is no way for any molecule of wind to pass through the disc without imparting its energy to the blades.
Imo your best bet is to buy a diesel generator, run it on bio fuel and invest any cash left over in shares in a solar panel manufacturing company. Sorry.

11-03-15, 12:12 PM	#15
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	Any updates on the project meescha? __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

10-06-15, 04:49 PM	#11
meescha Lurking Renovator Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: USA Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	well it seems im pretty much going to have to build one of those commercial wind turbines, which have blades big enough to do what i need at low wind speeds or go with a hybrid system that relies on both wind and solar, or go strictly solar. well according to google fairbanks recieved 4 hours of sunlight in the winter, im not so much concerned about the summers alot of solar energy there, im nore concerned about the winter, how much of that 4 hours can be harvested, and what kind of a solar system would i be looking at, that can be used for those 4 hours? that could supply 10 kw, i will generally only use 5 kw, but id rather have more when needed.

10-07-15, 07:30 AM	#13
meescha Lurking Renovator Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: USA Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	thats very helpfull thanks where2 well im most likely going to still have to do solar, and find out where the nearest grid is, i wont be purchasing the land till summer next year, so i may have to choose land thats near a grid. but i my hosue is 150 feet away from the nearetst power pole, the price to have grid hooked up will go up dramatically, from googling the price for 1 mile is supposedly 80-100k, so if i hook up to the grid ill have to plan accordingly, 80-100k is a bit much, tho tbh for 100k what kind of solar panels could i get lol. ive read about micro hydro but again thats probably not so good in the winter when the ice could be a few feet thick, no water = no electricity. does anyone know of any other solutions at least for the winter? or is hooking up to the grid my only option?

10-07-15, 08:10 AM	#14
Robaroni Journeyman EcoRenovator Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Delhi, NY Posts: 332 Thanks: 20 Thanked 53 Times in 40 Posts	Meescha, HAWT is more efficient than VAWT but VAWT's are easier to build and don't have the furling requirements of HAWT's. From the wind data it looks like your location is a poor wind decision, sorry, there's no easy way to put it. You can build your own but once you start getting up to and over 10 foot blades (wood is fine) you are introducing stresses and design requirements that take several built windmills to understand. Wind is attractive, it looks so easy and we can see it spinning around but it's a bear to do right, take a look at the failures in commercial designs. Using a crane to hoist a 300 lb windmill up 80 feet isn't just a one time thing. Windmills are mechanical and that means service. Bearings fail, blades fail and alternators fail. They fail when the weather is the worst, the little buggers! MY suggestion after living with alternatives for several years is to go PV. Prices are under a dollar a watt for systems today and you'll get more bang for your buck than any windmill ever made. Don't mount your modules on a roof unless you don't have the ground area, snow will kill your output for months. Put them on poles, especially in Alaska where the latitude angles are steep in the winter when you want that snow to slide off the modules. ( I use a foam brush on a long pole to clean off my ground modules and I'm good all winter in the Western Catskills of NY - 42 latitude). Besides if you have a problem nothing is worse then climbing on a roof with 2 feet of snow cover, I've been there! Once you learn how to live with PV you can experiment with wind which compliments PV, by the way, if you still want to but living with alternatives is a learning curve that you can't get fully out of books. I started like you, I built my house and then put in a 1400 watt PV system to learn from. Today (10 years later) I have 10.6 Kw's and because I took my time not too many mistakes. I'm just getting to implement wind (I've been monitoring my wind for years with a high quality monitor, I suggest you do the same) and hydro here so don't rush, that's when you make mistakes. Rob

11-04-15, 03:49 PM	#17
Robaroni Journeyman EcoRenovator Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Delhi, NY Posts: 332 Thanks: 20 Thanked 53 Times in 40 Posts	Meesha, Sorry if you posted it and I missed it but what is your land acreage? Also do you have streams, steep hills, etc? Rob

11-04-15, 08:51 PM	#18
WisJim Helper EcoRenovator Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 42 Thanks: 7 Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts	The best source of info for owner-built wind turbines is Other Power, Wind Power \| Otherpower They offer workshops that include actually building a working machine in about 6 days and they have a good book covering the machines and their construction and design. If I was going to build a wind turbine I would follow their designs. I have however been using a 1940s 2.5kw Jacobs since around 1977 and it is an extremely reliable machine. But--today PVs are so cheap compared to even a few years ago that unless you are in a very good wind site it isn't worth considering a wind turbine instead of PVs. By a "good wind site" I usually mean at least 10 to 12 mph average wind in the vicinity and a site for the tower with no surrounding trees or buildings and the ability to have a tower at least 120 feet tall or taller. And remember no matter what the sales pitch might be, all wind turbines require maintenance, usually at least an annual inspection and bolt tightness check, and this can't be done from the ground.

11-05-15, 08:08 PM	#19
nibs Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 206 Thanks: 1 Thanked 18 Times in 17 Posts	Having designed and built approximately 600 small wind turbines in the early 1980's I can assure you that the only way to even approach useful power from a turbine, under the conditions you describe, is to build a horizontal axis "drag" machine. think American standard windmill, the type you see pumping water on farms. The blades are flat plates with a high angle of attack, there is no way for any molecule of wind to pass through the disc without imparting its energy to the blades. Imo your best bet is to buy a diesel generator, run it on bio fuel and invest any cash left over in shares in a solar panel manufacturing company. Sorry.