useing frig for ac

[Ryland]

The problem still exists that at the coldest point in the year still dumping heat out side, however you look at it the reason that you need the cold from the outside is because the heat from the inside of the house is getting in to the fridge, the heat pump that all of our fridges have is dumping that heat in to the house instead of dumping it outside.
I like the thermal battery idea but why not have that thermal battery inside? say a 300 gallon tank of water that either preheats your incoming water or works with a heat pump water heater, have it plumbed to your whole house, bath vent fans, oven range hood, oven vent, all the wasted heat collected and used, it would most likely have to be part of a whole house design but if it was done it should work well.

[AC_Hacker]

Originally Posted by Ryland

The problem still exists that at the coldest point in the year still dumping heat out side, however you look at it the reason that you need the cold from the outside is because the heat from the inside of the house is getting in to the fridge, the heat pump that all of our fridges have is dumping that heat in to the house instead of dumping it outside.
I like the thermal battery idea but why not have that thermal battery inside? say a 300 gallon tank of water that either preheats your incoming water or works with a heat pump water heater, have it plumbed to your whole house, bath vent fans, oven range hood, oven vent, all the wasted heat collected and used, it would most likely have to be part of a whole house design but if it was done it should work well.

This is a really interesting idea...

Can you make a drawing or diagram of that?

-AC_Hacker

[Piwoslaw]

Originally Posted by AC_Hacker

I know my ground temp is generally 50 to 55 degrees F (with seasonal swings) when you get down a meter or two.

So, it would certainly improve the efficiency of the reefer, and the low-grade heat put into the earth could be re-harvested with a GSHP.

In this case, the ground would be like a giant storage battery.

But what I had in mind with the GSHP wasn't dumping heat from the fridge into the ground, then collecting it with a heat pump. I was thinking about dumping refrigerator heat into the ground source loop that's carrying water towards the heat pump. That way, the HP's supply side has a few more watts of heat. In fact, if the ground water temperature is right, you could sidestep the compressor and have the water go through the refrigerator's walls, soaking up heat directly.

Originally Posted by AC_Hacker

This is a really interesting idea...

Can you make a drawing or diagram of that?

Here is a diagram of something similar.
Advice on ventilation ecorenovation

I've read a bit about heat buffers - huge, superinsulated water tanks that collect and store heat from many sources (whatever is available/cheap at the moment), then give it off where and when it is needed. I've been meaning to do a detailed write up, but have been short on time recently. I promise I'll do it soon.

[AC_Hacker]

Originally Posted by Piwoslaw

I've read a bit about heat buffers - huge, superinsulated water tanks that collect and store heat from many sources (whatever is available/cheap at the moment), then give it off where and when it is needed. I've been meaning to do a detailed write up, but have been short on time recently. I promise I'll do it soon.

...While you are working on the detailed write-up, I came across some info in my Alternative-Energy storage trove...

• Here's a link to Milk Tanker Thermal Store with Heat Pump. I couldn't tell if he actually did this, but it is well thought out and quantified. At the bottom of this page is a very interesting link area.
• Here's a DIY 500 gallon heat storage tank that was actually constructed.
• This link explains some of the concepts pertaining to heat storage being developed in Europe, to an American audience. I saved it because of the excellent diagrams.
• Here's a link to a patent pertaining to a heat storage tank. It's from 1977, DIY work has gone beyond it now.
• Here's a link to a Build-It-Solar page that documents a DIY solar collector, a DIY therrmal storage tank, etc. No performance data yet.
• And lastly, here's a link to a guy who actually did buy a stainless steel milk tank, insulated it, and buried it for heat storage. Link to whole project here.

[Piwoslaw]

Wow AC, you're a library!
Those links are pretty close to what I wanted to write about, but very interesting anyway. The milk tanker - LOL.

[Ryland]

I don't have any good way to sketch and upload, but the idea that I'm thinking of is basically an insulated box that fits to the back side of your fridge with just enough room for air to move around the coils, at the top you would have your heat pumps, I'm personally a big fan of Peltier Junctions but others could work, the heat pump(s) would have fins on the fridge side and would be used for cooling the air in the enclosed box on the back of the fridge, the other side of the heat pump is going to get hot, this would have a water block heat sink and be connected with 3/8" or so pex water pipe and go to your thermal battery storage tank, that tank could then either have a coil that is used for preheating your domestic hot water or could again use a heat pump to heat your hot water up to full temp but that would require a better balance.
You would have a bit of loss from the heat pump but those losses would be turned in to heat an go in to your thermal battery and that energy/heat would offset what your water heater would otherwise be using.

[AC_Hacker]

Originally Posted by Ryland

I don't have any good way to sketch and upload, but the idea that I'm thinking of is...

One way that is quick and easy, if you have a digital camera is just do a drawing with pencil or marker pen, and photograph it and upload the pix file. I've done that before and it works pretty good.

...as they say a picture is worth a thousand words.

Regarding Peltier devices (from Wikipedia):

Thermoelectric junctions are generally only around 5–10% as efficient as the ideal refrigerator (Carnot cycle), compared with 40–60% achieved by conventional compression cycle systems (reverse Rankine systems using compression/expansion). Due to the relatively low efficiency, thermoelectric cooling is generally only used in environments where the solid state nature (no moving parts, maintenance-free) outweighs pure efficiency.

-AC_HAcker

[obxdave]

what seemed like a way to keep my shop cool sure got a lot to figer out as to what to do on a low coast thank you

[Piwoslaw]

Sorry for hijacking the thread, obxdave. Maybe this thread can still be split into two, the second being "How to efficiently use your refrigerator" or something similar?

Originally Posted by Ryland

We are getting off topic here, so maybe a new thread should be made?

[Piwoslaw]

Originally Posted by Piwoslaw

I've read a bit about heat buffers - huge, superinsulated water tanks that collect and store heat from many sources (whatever is available/cheap at the moment), then give it off where and when it is needed. I've been meaning to do a detailed write up, but have been short on time recently. I promise I'll do it soon.

Done!
Heat accumulator