Solar space heating for shop - Page 2

Daox · 09-27-13, 08:45 AM

How much are you going to be able to put behind? 1"?

AC_Hacker · 09-27-13, 06:44 PM

Wow randen, Solar Heating with GSHP Backup.

What a luxury!

Another angle on this setup is that you'll be drawing less heat from your loop field, and the replenishment solar energy falling on the loop filed will bring the temperature up.

BTW, do you have any plans to store the solar energy that you will be gathering, but not needing throughout the summer?

That would raise the ground temp and really increase the efficiency of your heat pump when you do need to use it.

Remember this graph:

It indicated a COP 6 down to COP 4, ultimately depending on the delta T, but most understandably it relates very much to the source temperature (loop field temperature).

Is you house set up to work in that manner? Mostly a matter of plumbing, and some sensors, and a little Arduino magic (hint! hint!).

Best,

-AC

randen · 09-28-13, 09:24 AM

AC Hacker

The heating of the loop field is very easy in the shops system set-up. I will include a drawing of the circuit a little later. The whole system uses the same propylene glycol. Meaning its all connected. The glycol solution can circulate through the solar panels then by-pass the air handler then through the 4-way valve in the heat-pump and back to the solar panel. Daox asked about the insulation. The shop currently has 6 in. r20 fiberglass and yes will be adding 1" thermax sheeting to the exterior. I've been a little anal about the sealing of the plastic vapour barrier and other ideas on how I can make it better and I have to keep reminding my-self (its a shop)

It's the 28th of Sept another beautiful day. A good day for more out-side work. will be framing in the last window.

Check-out the photo any idea what these two items could have in common?? My plate is now more than full with projects!!

randen · 09-28-13, 09:36 AM

The air-conditioner is fairly new. I was installed in the window incorrectly. PUSHED CLEAN OUT. OPPS. Condenser absorbed the fall.

Randen

randen · 09-30-13, 06:14 AM

An up-date
The south wall has both the new windows framed. We needed to have a narrower window so we could increase the amount of solar collector area. The 1' copper tube supplying the bottom manifold with glycol is installed. Insulation and Thermax back board is next.

Randen

Mikesolar · 09-30-13, 06:34 AM

Randen, remember that the stud wall has to be able to breathe, either to the inside or to the outside or the dreaded rot will come. I think the 1" sheeting may constitute a vapour barrier.

randen · 09-30-13, 08:05 AM

Mike
Thanks for the heads up. But it is a shop, and I'm making an effort to stem most of airflow. But in no way will the wall be air-tight in any stretch of the imagination.

Randen

AC_Hacker · 09-30-13, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randen

The air-conditioner is fairly new. I was installed in the window incorrectly. PUSHED CLEAN OUT. OPPS. Condenser absorbed the fall.

Another donor unit!

-AC

randen · 10-02-13, 08:05 AM

The last window is installed and the copper tubing for the lower manifold is in and soldered. The plastic vapour barrier has been improved greatly from when I first built the shop. Its just a little thing but the receptical boxes never had been enclosed with plastic to prevent air infiltration so we'll do that now.

The circulation pump has arrived and we'll install that in the next day or so as well do a pressure test.
I will use the fiberglass insulation in and around the copper tubes. The exterior Thermax will be painted a flat black and installed on-top of the 2 x 6 studs doing double duty. More insulation for the envelop and the back of the collector risers.

I'm having some stainless sheet stock bent up for drip and corner flashing as well as retaining the Suntuff corrugated plastic collector covering. Its a little more expensive and tuff to drill and work with but you only do it once. and it always looks good.

Randen

Daox · 10-02-13, 09:05 AM

How is this going to be plumbed? Im guessing its a antifreeze setup, not drain back. So is it going to be plumbed directly into the floor loop?

09-27-13, 08:45 AM	#11
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	How much are you going to be able to put behind? 1"? __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

09-27-13, 06:44 PM	#12
AC_Hacker Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 4,004 Thanks: 303 Thanked 724 Times in 534 Posts	Solar Heating with GSHP Backup... Wow randen, Solar Heating with GSHP Backup. What a luxury! Another angle on this setup is that you'll be drawing less heat from your loop field, and the replenishment solar energy falling on the loop filed will bring the temperature up. BTW, do you have any plans to store the solar energy that you will be gathering, but not needing throughout the summer? That would raise the ground temp and really increase the efficiency of your heat pump when you do need to use it. Remember this graph: It indicated a COP 6 down to COP 4, ultimately depending on the delta T, but most understandably it relates very much to the source temperature (loop field temperature). Is you house set up to work in that manner? Mostly a matter of plumbing, and some sensors, and a little Arduino magic (hint! hint!). Best, -AC __________________ I'm not an HVAC technician. In fact, I'm barely even a hacker...

09-28-13, 09:24 AM	#13
randen Uber EcoRenovator Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Strathroy Ontario Canada Posts: 657 Thanks: 9 Thanked 191 Times in 129 Posts	Solar hot water space heating for the shop AC Hacker The heating of the loop field is very easy in the shops system set-up. I will include a drawing of the circuit a little later. The whole system uses the same propylene glycol. Meaning its all connected. The glycol solution can circulate through the solar panels then by-pass the air handler then through the 4-way valve in the heat-pump and back to the solar panel. Daox asked about the insulation. The shop currently has 6 in. r20 fiberglass and yes will be adding 1" thermax sheeting to the exterior. I've been a little anal about the sealing of the plastic vapour barrier and other ideas on how I can make it better and I have to keep reminding my-self (its a shop) It's the 28th of Sept another beautiful day. A good day for more out-side work. will be framing in the last window. Check-out the photo any idea what these two items could have in common?? My plate is now more than full with projects!! Last edited by randen; 09-28-13 at 09:39 AM.. Reason: punctuation

09-28-13, 09:36 AM	#14
randen Uber EcoRenovator Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Strathroy Ontario Canada Posts: 657 Thanks: 9 Thanked 191 Times in 129 Posts	Solar hot water space heating for the shop The air-conditioner is fairly new. I was installed in the window incorrectly. PUSHED CLEAN OUT. OPPS. Condenser absorbed the fall. Randen Attached Thumbnails Last edited by Daox; 10-23-13 at 10:13 AM..

10-02-13, 08:05 AM	#19
randen Uber EcoRenovator Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Strathroy Ontario Canada Posts: 657 Thanks: 9 Thanked 191 Times in 129 Posts	Solar hot water space heating The last window is installed and the copper tubing for the lower manifold is in and soldered. The plastic vapour barrier has been improved greatly from when I first built the shop. Its just a little thing but the receptical boxes never had been enclosed with plastic to prevent air infiltration so we'll do that now. The circulation pump has arrived and we'll install that in the next day or so as well do a pressure test. I will use the fiberglass insulation in and around the copper tubes. The exterior Thermax will be painted a flat black and installed on-top of the 2 x 6 studs doing double duty. More insulation for the envelop and the back of the collector risers. I'm having some stainless sheet stock bent up for drip and corner flashing as well as retaining the Suntuff corrugated plastic collector covering. Its a little more expensive and tuff to drill and work with but you only do it once. and it always looks good. Randen Attached Thumbnails Last edited by Daox; 10-23-13 at 10:14 AM..

09-30-13, 06:14 AM	#15
randen Uber EcoRenovator Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Strathroy Ontario Canada Posts: 657 Thanks: 9 Thanked 191 Times in 129 Posts	An up-date The south wall has both the new windows framed. We needed to have a narrower window so we could increase the amount of solar collector area. The 1' copper tube supplying the bottom manifold with glycol is installed. Insulation and Thermax back board is next. Randen

09-30-13, 06:34 AM	#16
Mikesolar Master EcoRenovator Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Toronto Posts: 958 Thanks: 40 Thanked 158 Times in 150 Posts	Randen, remember that the stud wall has to be able to breathe, either to the inside or to the outside or the dreaded rot will come. I think the 1" sheeting may constitute a vapour barrier.

09-30-13, 08:05 AM	#17
randen Uber EcoRenovator Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Strathroy Ontario Canada Posts: 657 Thanks: 9 Thanked 191 Times in 129 Posts	Mike Thanks for the heads up. But it is a shop, and I'm making an effort to stem most of airflow. But in no way will the wall be air-tight in any stretch of the imagination. Randen

10-02-13, 09:05 AM	#20
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	How is this going to be plumbed? Im guessing its a antifreeze setup, not drain back. So is it going to be plumbed directly into the floor loop? __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.