12-01-09, 02:30 PM | #121 |
Lex Parsimoniae
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December 09 Heating cost, using Sanyo mini-split heat pump
Getting the average temperature here: Weather Station History : Weather Underground
December 2009: Day of Month / kWh / Average degrees F. 1, 9.26, 38 2, 7.23, 44 3, 2.88, 60 4, 5.62, 49 5, 9.17, 36 6, 10.5, 27 7, 12.9, 29 8, 12.2, 29 9, 9.23, 36 10, 8.77, 32 11, 14.2, 23 12, 14.3, 24 13, 12.9, 28 14, 9.95, 37 15, 8.58, 40 16, 10.4, 29 17, 16.9, 16 18, 14.5, 16 19, 11.5, 20 20, 11.5, 21 21, 14.2, 25.3 22, 15.2, 23.3 23, 14.8, 15.2 24, 8.17, 28.7 25, 13.8, 27.1 26, 10.5, 36.2 27, 8.35, 44.6 28, 13.8, 31.7 29, 15.3, 21.0 30, 10.5, 17.0 >>>March 2010, w/ new outdoor unit<<< 26, 8.56, 38.8 27, 13.9, 26.0 28, 9.37, 37.2 29, 7.05, 49.9 30, 8.05, 46.8 31, 7.82, 45.8 >>>April 2010, w/ new outdoor unit<<< 1, 5.00, 51.1 2, 4.45, 50.9 3, 2.45, 59.8 4, 2.89, 61.9 5, 1.14, 58.9 6, 2.72, 56.2 7, 2.67, 65.9 8, 2.54, 55.0 9, 5.26, 48.0 10, 6.02, 47.3 11, 2.09, 55 12, 2.72, 48 13, 5.68, 44 14, 3.25, 49.8 15, 3.55, 47.4 16, 10.3, 40.0 rain 17, 10.0, 39.8 rain 18, 7.59, 43.5 19, 5.26, 47.4 20, 3.58, 53.4 21, 2.35, 56.4 22, 2.57, 56.3 23, 4.07, 51.2 24, 3.31, 53.3 25, 2.26, 56.0 26, 3.85, 51.1 27, 5.71, 45.2 28, 9.23, 39.0 29, 6.01, 48.2 30, 2.12, 56.6 Averaging about 74 cents a day for April. Tax Day Notes: It's been a cool first half of April. We have been turning the Sanyo off on the warmer afternoons. It's very nice to have breakfast at 72degs when it's in the mid 30s outdoors. These first 15 days of April (50.7kWh) cost us $10.10 (@0.20 per kWh). After this little burst of snowy weekend weather is gone, we should see from 1.5 to 2.5 kWh per day for the rest of April, ending the heating season. (I hope)! March 30, 2010 note: On rainy or cloudy days, the power usage will be higher than normal, since there is no solar gain from the south facing windows. Dec 5 Notes: The defrost mode works fine. See pics above. http://ecorenovator.org/forum/projec....html#post5052 Breaking Even? If it was super cold and the Sanyo running at it's full 2.5 kw for 24 hours, that's 60 kWh ($12). That would be the same price as buying 4 gallons of $3 a gal heating oil.. (The burner uses 1 GPH when on. During Jan-Feb ave use is 3 to 4 gal-per-day. More on the really cold days ). If I use 60 kWh as my break-even limit, using 20 to 30 kWh a day isn't so bad. Not bad at all! Dec 10 notes: Total house power use. Checked the Nstar meter today. We used 429 kWh in the last 19 days. That's 22.58 kWh per day. This time last year, we were using 27.7 kWh per day. I guess those old space heaters that we were using with the oil heat, weren't too green.. Dec 17: COLD! It got down to 14F this morning and the Sanyo works great! Last night, the setback was 68 degs F. Clicked it back up, starting at 6:30 AM. It's now 10:30 AM and the average temperature since midnight has been 18.5 degrees. Since midnight, have used 8.08 kWh or $1.62 (instead of a few gallons of oil). It's going to stay about this cold for the next 24 hours, so we might use 15 to 20 kWh today. But the Solar gain will cut that down some. Right now, we are at a warm 72 degs, using 730 watts. (when not coasting). Today is going to be a good test of the Sanyo's ability to deliver heat at a high rate at a higher duty cycle. So far, it's looking good. Dec 18: Midnight Hybrid mode The last 24 hours average temp was 16 degs. Used 19.9 kWh ($3.38), and now that it's 7 degrees and dropping(?), I have turned on the hotwater heat flow-thru valve to insure that no baseboard pipes freeze up in the closed rooms. 07:00 AM, 6.0 Degrees F. Hybrid mode worked pretty well. Used 5.2 kWh during the night and kept the house at a constant 68 all night. The air coming out of the Sanyo, 'felt' like about 12,000 BTU, using about 1kW, which I think is pretty good considering the temperature outside. Dec 23 notes about cost of fuel & power: http://ecorenovator.org/forum/conser....html#post5310 As far as it's suitability for use in our new England climate, I think we can declare this part of the experiment a success. Last edited by Xringer; 05-01-10 at 08:06 AM.. Reason: Recording weather history |
12-07-09, 11:23 PM | #122 | |
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Measuring Refrigerant Pressure in Sanyo...
Quote:
I haven't tested the pressure on my unit yet... no need to it's working just fine. But You might google the question and see what you come up with. However, there should be a sticker on your unit that states what the working pressure is. It probably says something like Lo = 280 Hi = 425, that's is just a guess, it's about 20 degrees outside, and right now I'm inside, pretty cozy. If the unit is not running, the pressure would eventually equalize. You'll want to measure the pressure when the unit is operating normally, not when it's doing a defrost cycle. When you start the unit up, the pressures change and will stabilize after about 10 to 20 minutes. At this time, I'm not even sure where the service valves are. I looked for diagrams in the Service PDF, but didn't see anything. I think that if you just measured the High side, it would tell you what you need to know. When you remove the manifold hose, you'll lose a very small bit of refrigerant, not to worry, but do wear gloves & eye protection. Are you having serious problems? Mine's working just dandy... this morning it was around 18 degrees here. My unit is working a bit harder, but I'd expect that. Frost forming on the evaporator is normal, and so is the defrost cycle. -AC_Hacker |
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12-08-09, 12:39 AM | #123 |
Lex Parsimoniae
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It's not a real serious problem. It is working fine, until I try to increase the temperature in a large increment. Like calling for 74, from 66. It's going to be 66 in the morning, so we have to set it to 68, wait for it to get there, then set it to 70, wait and so on. When a large change is requested, the power usage exceeds the normal max of 2.5 KW, as the compressor & fans run at highest speeds and start delivering a massive heat output. When the power usage hits 3 KW, my power monitor alarm goes off and I have to push the down (temperature) button to slow it down. Otherwise, the overload is sensed by the outdoor unit and it resets itself (at about 3.5 kw). I'm not sure, but I think the OLR 'overload relay' drops out the main 'power relay' for just a second and the power input blinks, like it was a power line glitch. It just starts right back up and if the living area isn't close to the target temperature, it starts power hogging again.. http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...CL/outdoor.jpg I get the feeling the controller board thinks it's installed in a 3 ton, instead of a 2 ton unit.. Anyways, Sanyo tech support thinks it might be "a problem with the charge in your system" and wants some off and running pressure readings. The wide tube is where the charge/service port is, And since the flow switches direction when heating vs cooling, I'm wondering if measuring in both AC and heating modes will be like measuring the High and low sides?? (on the single charge port). Maybe: 1. System off, wide tube valve off, hook up gauge, open valve and measure cold pressure. 2. Run Heat for 20 minutes and measure while still running. 3. Run Cool for 20 minutes and measure while still running. 4. Sanyo Off, valve off, unhook gauge & cap & valve back to open again. 5. Record exact outdoor & indoor temperatures. I've found the pressure performance charts in the service manual, so I'll know what pressures to expect. http://sanyohvac.com/assets/document...SeriesRevB.pdf YES! pages 21 & 22. Cooling about 117 PSI and heating around 400 PSI, depending on the inside and outside air temperature. There's the old High and Low side.. Right?? Edit: That label just tells the Design Pressure.. http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...r/NCL/F106.jpg Last edited by Xringer; 12-08-09 at 12:44 AM.. Reason: label |
12-08-09, 11:28 AM | #124 | |
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Quote:
So yes, your scheme sounds reasonable. Probably should use the gauge with the highest range. Make sure the needle valve on the manifold is closed. Have you asked your Sanyo support tech for the proper proceedure? -AC_Hacker |
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12-14-09, 03:06 PM | #125 |
Lex Parsimoniae
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Pressure testing Dec 14, 2009.
Pressure measured at Wide Tube Service valve. Outdoor temp 43 degs F, Indoor temp 68 to 70 degs F. System off for 25 minutes, pressure = 140 PSI Heating & using 1.5 kW, pressure = 375 PSI Heating & using 2.0 kW, pressure = 450 PSI Heating & using 2.15 kW, pressure = 460 PSI Cooling & using 0.480 kW, pressure = 110 PSI Cooling & using 0.90 kW, pressure = 105 PSI These look normal to me. I'm using the service manual as a guide. http://sanyohvac.com/assets/document...SeriesRevB.pdf See pages 21 & 22. Edit: Also changed the dual 20A circuit breaker to a dual 15A breaker. Just in case. Last edited by Xringer; 12-15-09 at 08:12 PM.. |
01-07-10, 05:29 PM | #126 |
Lex Parsimoniae
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R-410A leaked
The pressure during cooling was a little too low. Should have been between 115 and 125 PSI.
The Sanyo kept working okay during the Xmas holidays, but may have been using a little too much power as the days got colder and colder. On the very cold night of Dec 29, it stopped heating. The fans were working, everything seemed normal, but there was no warm R-410A flowing in the copper. This week, under the guidance of Sanyo tech support, I tested the unit and found the R-410A had escaped. There are tracks where lube ran across the top of the insulating disc on top of the compressor. This copper tube is a thermistor mount, located just above the compressor. It is brazed on the right side. There is fresh lube on the nylon cable tie and the steel sensor clip. Using nitrogen at 300 PSI, I was able to locate the general location of the leak in a copper tube. I held a plastic tube to one ear and moved the other end of the plastic tube around, inside near the tubing, until I heard a loud hiss coming from thermistor tube. I was able to hold the sound-tube near the telephone mic, so the Sanyo tech could hear it too. The overall quality of the materials and workmanship is impressive. My guess is, the brazing on the right side of the sensor tube, hit a copper tube defect, or got so hot, it melted a tiny void in the copper.?. I was not able to 'see' the actual hole, I suspect that it's very very small. After about an hour, the pressure didn't seem to be dropping at all. It was still almost 300 PSI. I had to slowly bleed the nitrogen down. Sanyo has started the paperwork to get a replacement unit shipped, but I have idea when that will happen. This model is often out-of-stock. Now, I'm wondering about how to clean out the line-set & indoor unit coil, before installing the replacement outdoor unit.. |
01-07-10, 10:28 PM | #127 | |
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To my surprise, shortly after Naomi Wu gave me a bit of fame for making good use of solar power, Allie Moore got really jealous of her... |
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01-08-10, 02:17 AM | #128 | |
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Sorry about your leak...
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Sorry about your leak. My unit is still humming right along. Yeah, good looking build quality. Good photo. Regards, -AC_Hacker |
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01-08-10, 12:25 PM | #129 |
Lex Parsimoniae
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IIRC, that chart indicates a very long vacuum cycle if it's pretty cold.. Like it's going to be for a good while..
I do have a rather large loop in the bottom of the of the line-set. (right behind the unit). Plus, I know there are a lot of little loops inside the indoor-unit. Those two low parts of the loops could be holding a lot of POE lube.. Maybe I could hook up like I was going to nitrogen pressure test and then crack the nut on the small line to bleed out the nitrogen and any oil that might be pushed along.. I've found a lot of info about converting from R22 to R410A, Flushing Techniques For R-22 to R-410A Conversions but nothing much about just cleaning out an R410A line set.. |
01-10-10, 12:02 PM | #130 | ||
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Calculating Stranded Oil...
Quote:
Quote:
If you really want to get down on this issue, you could find out what the inside diameter of your tubing is and calculate the volume of the tube by estimating the length of the tube that would be likely to be holding oil, and then find out how much POE oil is a full charge for your comprressor, then divide the volume of oil stranded in the tube by the volume of a full charge of oil to see what percentage over your worst case might be. If it's something small like in the <5% range, don't worry, if it's big like 25%,or more, it's likely too much. Volume of stranded oil = ((Pi) x (ID)(ID))/4 x (length of tube) So yeah, if it was required, when you unhook your line-set from the old unit, you could use nitrogen to blow out the line-set and any oil that might be in the inside unit. But I think flushing would not be needed. Regards, -AC_Hacker Last edited by AC_Hacker; 01-10-10 at 12:08 PM.. |
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air conditioner, diy, heat pump |
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