Remodeling the office (new floor, ceiling & adding insulation) passive house retrofit - Page 11

S-F · 10-30-12, 05:47 PM

Close. You take the top corner of the insulation web and staple it to the top corner of your wall (SECURELY). Then you stretch it to the other top corner and securely staple it. Stretch to the bottom of one side and repeat on the other bottom corner. So you have a flat and tight sheet attached at four corners. Then you staple each bay. You staple to the sides of the studs. The reason you do this is to stretch the netting tight over each bay so so the cell doesn't make it bulge out so much you can't rock it. You "side staple" the sides, top and bottom. You push the stapler in against the netting as far as a reasonable amount of pressure allows and then staple to the side of the stud. The important part really is the hanging. Hang it tight and flat. If there is a loose fold somewhere, take it down and start over. Hanging the quicker part but the part that takes more attention to detail. Once it's up, staple the s*&t out of it. Just not so many that it tears the netting. You'll figure that part out in about one minute. And it probably wouldn't be an issue at all any way if you aren't using an air stapler that can shoot 7 - 10 staples in the same place if you don't keep it moving. You want the netting to be trampoline like. Nothing loose at all. not even remotely. Otherwise you'll be in hell when you try to put up sheetrock. I actually once had some rockers cut my netting and claw cell out because they didn't know what they were doing. Not only did I not use them again, I made the kind gesture of showing them how to roll cellulose. They took close to a bag out of a small addition I was working on. It took me all day to blow that!

Hang it tight. Start to side staple at one side and work over. As you side staple each side of the bay you will see it getting tighter. Keep it tight. Think drum head.

I wish I had known this would come up a week ago. On Friday one of the other crew leaders at my company did a net and blow job about a mile from my house and I could have snuck away from my job to make a video of this. When are you planning on doing this? If I can I'll make a priority of taking a net and blow video.

I hate writing. Can I record myself talking with all of my input and attach the audio file? I find myself withholding details because I don't' want to write.

strider3700 · 10-30-12, 07:34 PM

On the builditsolar site he has an entry on the netting. If I remember correctly they put it up tight then went out and rolled glue on each stud using a small paint roller to glue the netting down tight and help prevent bulging that will mess up the board. the glue just sucked through the netting so it was probably a quick thing to do and pretty inexpensive.

S-F · 10-30-12, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strider3700

On the builditsolar site he has an entry on the netting. If I remember correctly they put it up tight then went out and rolled glue on each stud using a small paint roller to glue the netting down tight and help prevent bulging that will mess up the board. the glue just sucked through the netting so it was probably a quick thing to do and pretty inexpensive.

Yeah, but it was an unnecessary expense.

Daox · 10-30-12, 10:49 PM

You could always just make a few notes and film yourself and upload it to youtube.

I thought up a couple more questions:

How do you handle electrical boxes?

The netting I've seen on BIS is an 8ft wide sheet. The stuff we have at the home improvement store here is only 5ft wide. Do you hang it vertically or horizontally? I'd imagine it would have to be vertical so you can seal the ends with staples in the studs.

I'm hoping to insulate sometime this week btw.

S-F · 10-31-12, 04:58 AM

You hang it horizontally. Just overlap it a foot or so. Otherwise you will have too much waste. As noted earlier, 5' doesn't meet up with 16" O/C. It's unappealing to have big folds of fabric flapping in the breeze. As for electrical boxes, you just net over them. When you're done you cut an X over them and fold the netting back.
I'll try to get on a net and blow job to get some footage this week, but no promises. I'm not usually on those jobs these days and when I am it's usually in an awkward situation. Like insulating the slopes of a kneewall crawl space in a cape or something like that.

Daox · 10-31-12, 02:47 PM

The only thing different about my setup is instead of my outlet boxes sticking out ~1/2" they're going to have to stick out ~1" because of the added wall thickness. Do you think that this will cause a problem? Or do I just staple around it as well as I can?

S-F · 10-31-12, 02:52 PM

Don't worry about it at all. Just net over it really tight and cut it open once blowing is done. The only place that gets face stapled is right next to the boxes. You can't staple to the side of the stud because there's a box there. All will be well.

S-F · 10-31-12, 09:35 PM

One more point. If your install guy hasn't done this before (and if so you should just do it yourself) remember that the feel should be "mattress firm". If it's hard (like an aged futon or so) you are only making money for your cell manufacturer. If it's soft it will eventually settle.

EDIT:

Daox, where the hell do you live?! I'm going to call lumber yards out there to find you a rental machine.

Daox · 11-01-12, 10:33 AM

Haha, Germantown, WI just like it says under my name.

I did email my insulation guy. He said he could do the mesh wall.

Now I just need to go buy a stapler so I can put up the mesh. I thought my cousin had one but he just had a manual one.

Daox · 11-03-12, 12:35 PM

So, updates for today. Well, I decided to replace the hot water line going to the upstairs bathroom while I have the wall mostly open. Just adjacent to the exterior wall is the wall which runs the plumbing to the 2nd floor. It currently has 3/4" copper line running the whole way. The upstairs bath is just a shower stall, toilet, and sink. I think that 3/4" line is quite overkill and getting hot water takes roughly a minute (50 seconds to warm, 55 seconds to hot). To improve this, I was thinking that I would run 1/2" pex the whole way (or at least as far as I can get. This should significantly reduce the time to get hot water and the amount of wasted water. Since I use a 1.25gpm low flow shower head (Niagara Conservation Earth 1.25gpm, love it, and its cheap!), I don't think shower pressure should be effected much. I don't really care if the toilet fills a little slower or water doesn't blast out of the sink as hard.

Here is where the water lines come up. You can see that the hot water line does neck down to 1/2" copper after it splits off to the sink/shower. The remaining vertical run is all 3/4" and uninsulated in the wall.

While digging around I also found these other possible issues. I have some drain lines running right on the exterior walls. It hasn't been an issue in the past, but I really never want it to be. I'd like some feedback on how bad this really is.

In this picture its hard to see, but you can see the bit of white pvc going up on the left side. I believe that is a vent pipe. I'm not sure if those are supposed to be in exterior walls.

This is the sink drain. Right in the exterior wall. You can see they tried to insulate around it.

Here is the toilet plumbing. It juts to the outside wall for a short section and comes back. I have no idea why this was done this way...

10-30-12, 10:49 PM	#104
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	You could always just make a few notes and film yourself and upload it to youtube. I thought up a couple more questions: How do you handle electrical boxes? The netting I've seen on BIS is an 8ft wide sheet. The stuff we have at the home improvement store here is only 5ft wide. Do you hang it vertically or horizontally? I'd imagine it would have to be vertical so you can seal the ends with staples in the studs. I'm hoping to insulate sometime this week btw. __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Last edited by Daox; 10-30-12 at 11:20 PM..

10-31-12, 02:47 PM	#106
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	The only thing different about my setup is instead of my outlet boxes sticking out ~1/2" they're going to have to stick out ~1" because of the added wall thickness. Do you think that this will cause a problem? Or do I just staple around it as well as I can? __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

11-01-12, 10:33 AM	#109
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	Haha, Germantown, WI just like it says under my name. I did email my insulation guy. He said he could do the mesh wall. Now I just need to go buy a stapler so I can put up the mesh. I thought my cousin had one but he just had a manual one. __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Last edited by Daox; 11-01-12 at 12:07 PM..

11-03-12, 12:35 PM	#110
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	So, updates for today. Well, I decided to replace the hot water line going to the upstairs bathroom while I have the wall mostly open. Just adjacent to the exterior wall is the wall which runs the plumbing to the 2nd floor. It currently has 3/4" copper line running the whole way. The upstairs bath is just a shower stall, toilet, and sink. I think that 3/4" line is quite overkill and getting hot water takes roughly a minute (50 seconds to warm, 55 seconds to hot). To improve this, I was thinking that I would run 1/2" pex the whole way (or at least as far as I can get. This should significantly reduce the time to get hot water and the amount of wasted water. Since I use a 1.25gpm low flow shower head (Niagara Conservation Earth 1.25gpm, love it, and its cheap!), I don't think shower pressure should be effected much. I don't really care if the toilet fills a little slower or water doesn't blast out of the sink as hard. Here is where the water lines come up. You can see that the hot water line does neck down to 1/2" copper after it splits off to the sink/shower. The remaining vertical run is all 3/4" and uninsulated in the wall. While digging around I also found these other possible issues. I have some drain lines running right on the exterior walls. It hasn't been an issue in the past, but I really never want it to be. I'd like some feedback on how bad this really is. In this picture its hard to see, but you can see the bit of white pvc going up on the left side. I believe that is a vent pipe. I'm not sure if those are supposed to be in exterior walls. This is the sink drain. Right in the exterior wall. You can see they tried to insulate around it. Here is the toilet plumbing. It juts to the outside wall for a short section and comes back. I have no idea why this was done this way... Attached Thumbnails __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

10-30-12, 07:34 PM	#102
strider3700 Master EcoRenovator Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Vancouver Island BC Posts: 745 Thanks: 23 Thanked 37 Times in 30 Posts	On the builditsolar site he has an entry on the netting. If I remember correctly they put it up tight then went out and rolled glue on each stud using a small paint roller to glue the netting down tight and help prevent bulging that will mess up the board. the glue just sucked through the netting so it was probably a quick thing to do and pretty inexpensive.