Water heater improvement (Timer)

Xringer · 09-03-10, 03:07 PM

GE 15207 timer was $38 at Home Depot.

http://waterheatertimer.org/15087-15...Manual-eng.pdf

Before installing this timer on my hot water heater (actually my oil burner),
I tested it with my Kill-A-Watt and got no reading.
Used the VOM AC Amps and saw 0.02 Amp that's about 2.5 watts, so it's a keeper.
The meter reading was less than 0.01 Amp without the two relays energized.
(When the water heater is off. Clock motor only).

It's a simple mechanical timer that does 30 minute increments.
Can run on 120, 240 or 277 vac. (This is the indoor version).
Not as fancy as a battery-backed-up LCD unit, but it's a lot less money.
It can handle 8,000 watt loads, so my little burner should work fine.

I'll try to post some pics of the install.

Cheers,
Rich

Daox · 09-03-10, 03:21 PM

Nice, that should definitely help out. I know Ryland praises them up and down.

How are you planning on setting it up? Just turning it off at night?

Xringer · 09-03-10, 03:37 PM

For summer, I was thinking of running it for 1/2 hour around 8AM.
Since the boiler will be cool after a night of being off, it should run 1/2 hour,
unless it hits max temperature before the timer shuts down.

I might try switching it on again around noon time. If the temp is down, the burner will light off again.
It's going to take some experimenting to see how the timer, Aquastat Min-Max, and us hot-water users interact.

Xringer · 09-04-10, 09:10 AM

It works pretty well. Installed it early this morning (00:30) and it came on at 07:30 and heated up the storage water (76 gallons) to about 145 dF.

Wiring was pretty simple, only 3 wires. Hot and Neutral to the clock (2 left screws).
A short Hot jumper back to Common (relay 2), with the NO2 back to turn on the boiler.

I'm saving relay-1 contacts for a rainy day..

Face plate installed.

Case closed.

Dang! We just had a 15 minute grid failure! Now, I have to go reset the clock!!

Edit 19:20
We took 3 showers and did two loads of wash today. We still have 115 dF hotwater left over.
Leaving the timer as is, for now.

Patrick · 09-05-10, 08:14 AM

Looks good. I wonder how this would work on a 220V water heater?

Daox · 09-05-10, 08:36 AM

As long as it can handle the amperage your heater is, I'd say its perfect.

Patrick · 09-05-10, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daox

As long as it can handle the amperage your heater is, I'd say its perfect.

It currently has 2 4500W heating elements. I think it starts with the bottom one and if the temp gets too low it adds the top one.

NiHaoMike · 09-05-10, 09:08 AM

For a little energy saving, disable the bottom element. That will reduce the volume of water that is heated.

Xringer · 09-05-10, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick

It currently has 2 4500W heating elements. I think it starts with the bottom one and if the temp gets too low it adds the top one.

That's a lot of juice! Maybe you could disconnect the top heater and just
use the bottom one. The lines to the temperature switch removed?
For current like that, perhaps both NO contacts could run in parallel?

Maybe you can tell that I'm not really an Electrician, just an old retired Electronics guy.

I was just thinking about wear on relay contacts. If it's only a couple of cycles per day,
those contacts might outlive me and my offspring.

When the contacts close on my system, there is about a 20-second time delay,
before the oil burner motor can start (if the water temp is low).
The time delay is caused by the initializing of two electronic controllers.
So, there isn't a sudden motor load surge, the instant of relay on.

I have a second relay to fall back on, and in 20 years if both are pitted,
I can switch to the NC contacts and reverse all the time segment pins.

Xringer · 09-05-10, 09:59 AM

I was just thinking about the advantages of using a timer with an electric water heater.
If you know the KW used and your timer setting, you can calculate the absolute maximum cost to heat your water.
It might be less, on days when the timer comes on and the water is already pretty warm.
It allows you to plan-control your max cost a little better.

Oil makes my case is a little different. But using the 1/2 gallon-per-hour oil burner set up,
I can see that a 200 gallon fill up will last about 400 days, burning 1/2 hour a day.
1/2 hour a day is my current setting, and it seems to be working pretty well so far.

If the Sanyo keeps working this winter, we might be able to stay with this 1/2 hour setting for 95% of the cold weather.

If the Sanyo fails again, the timer program segments will have to be radically changed..

Hey, the sun coming in the window just reminded me of the PV array.
It's contributing about 1400 BTU to my hot-water right now.
And it's free! A happy side effect of my tinkering hobby!

09-03-10, 03:07 PM	#1
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	Water heater improvement (Timer) GE 15207 timer was $38 at Home Depot. http://waterheatertimer.org/15087-15...Manual-eng.pdf Before installing this timer on my hot water heater (actually my oil burner), I tested it with my Kill-A-Watt and got no reading. Used the VOM AC Amps and saw 0.02 Amp that's about 2.5 watts, so it's a keeper. The meter reading was less than 0.01 Amp without the two relays energized. (When the water heater is off. Clock motor only). It's a simple mechanical timer that does 30 minute increments. Can run on 120, 240 or 277 vac. (This is the indoor version). Not as fancy as a battery-backed-up LCD unit, but it's a lot less money. It can handle 8,000 watt loads, so my little burner should work fine. I'll try to post some pics of the install. Cheers, Rich

09-03-10, 03:21 PM	#2
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	Nice, that should definitely help out. I know Ryland praises them up and down. How are you planning on setting it up? Just turning it off at night? __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Last edited by Daox; 09-03-10 at 03:26 PM..

09-04-10, 09:10 AM	#4
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	It works!! It works pretty well. Installed it early this morning (00:30) and it came on at 07:30 and heated up the storage water (76 gallons) to about 145 dF. Wiring was pretty simple, only 3 wires. Hot and Neutral to the clock (2 left screws). A short Hot jumper back to Common (relay 2), with the NO2 back to turn on the boiler. I'm saving relay-1 contacts for a rainy day.. Face plate installed. Case closed. Dang! We just had a 15 minute grid failure! Now, I have to go reset the clock!! Edit 19:20 We took 3 showers and did two loads of wash today. We still have 115 dF hotwater left over. Leaving the timer as is, for now. Last edited by Xringer; 09-04-10 at 06:23 PM.. Reason: PM update

09-05-10, 08:36 AM	#6
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	As long as it can handle the amperage your heater is, I'd say its perfect. __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

09-05-10, 09:08 AM	#8
NiHaoMike Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,154 Thanks: 14 Thanked 257 Times in 241 Posts	For a little energy saving, disable the bottom element. That will reduce the volume of water that is heated. __________________ To my surprise, shortly after Naomi Wu gave me a bit of fame for making good use of solar power, Allie Moore got really jealous of her...

09-03-10, 03:37 PM	#3
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	For summer, I was thinking of running it for 1/2 hour around 8AM. Since the boiler will be cool after a night of being off, it should run 1/2 hour, unless it hits max temperature before the timer shuts down. I might try switching it on again around noon time. If the temp is down, the burner will light off again. It's going to take some experimenting to see how the timer, Aquastat Min-Max, and us hot-water users interact.

09-05-10, 08:14 AM	#5
Patrick Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: East Coast of Florida, USA Posts: 149 Thanks: 2 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts	Looks good. I wonder how this would work on a 220V water heater?

09-05-10, 09:59 AM	#10
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	I was just thinking about the advantages of using a timer with an electric water heater. If you know the KW used and your timer setting, you can calculate the absolute maximum cost to heat your water. It might be less, on days when the timer comes on and the water is already pretty warm. It allows you to plan-control your max cost a little better. Oil makes my case is a little different. But using the 1/2 gallon-per-hour oil burner set up, I can see that a 200 gallon fill up will last about 400 days, burning 1/2 hour a day. 1/2 hour a day is my current setting, and it seems to be working pretty well so far. If the Sanyo keeps working this winter, we might be able to stay with this 1/2 hour setting for 95% of the cold weather. If the Sanyo fails again, the timer program segments will have to be radically changed.. Hey, the sun coming in the window just reminded me of the PV array. It's contributing about 1400 BTU to my hot-water right now. And it's free! A happy side effect of my tinkering hobby!