04-23-15, 11:35 PM | #11 | |||
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Examples: http://www.ebay.com/itm/JB-INDUSTRIE...item4d259b8582 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-4-Flare-Sw...item2a4d68816b http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALCO-AFA1-4H...item54078443cc http://www.ebay.com/itm/JOHNSON-CONT.../381006887035? I appreciate you sharing your experience but yelling "they leak cause I said so" isn't very helpful. Quote:
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I did look at the link you posted, and none of them give the number of plates, so the information is not really comparable. |
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04-24-15, 02:06 PM | #12 |
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No threaded connection at all, there is a special valve that uses a spring + the pressure of gas within the cannister to ensure a seal.
There's really no value in bickering... Build your project. Keep using what methods work and change whatever doesn't work. Just do it. -AC
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04-24-15, 05:53 PM | #13 | |
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Let's be honest, you were giving incorrect advice and then started whining when I pointed it out. I'm not bickering, I'm simply trying to separate facts from BS. From the extensive research I've done on this website, you seem to constantly have an abrasive attitude with everybody. |
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04-24-15, 07:42 PM | #14 | |
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-AC
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05-03-15, 03:38 PM | #15 |
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As your grandma used to say, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. I'll update that to say, if you don't have anything useful to add, don't make a post in somebody's thread.
I came here to ask a few questions and TALK with some other like minded folks on this subject. If it is SUCH A BIG DEAL to you to offer any kind of explanation with your advice, then please, don't bother to offer it at all. I don't need it that bad. You aren't enough of an expert to have that kind of attitude. If you don't want to talk about this stuff and the theories behind WHY, then you shouldn't be here. I don't have any "point" to prove to you or anybody else. I can accomplish this project completely on my own just fine, but why reinvent the wheel? |
05-06-15, 11:31 PM | #16 | |
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Quote:
A "threaded flare connection" is a *completely* different animal to a "threaded connection". Threaded connections are generally used to seal at low pressure, heavy *large* molecules and where leakage is not an issue (air, oil, water). In high pressure and leak prone environments they are *never* used to effect a seal. Where you see 1/8" npt threads for gauges and access valves they are tapered threads and designed to be used with a sealant. The use of the tapered thread and sealant is a *one* shot affair. The act of tightening the fitting deforms the threads which coupled with the sealant effects the seal. Even the valve on your Propane bottle is screwed in with a tapered thread, but there is a very hard to remove adhesive sealant holding it together and filling the gaps. Removable refrigeration fittings are sealed with flares or gaskets. Flares are simply a soft metal to harder metal compression connection and the thread is there to maintain pressure on the sealing surface, not to participate in the seal. Gaskets should need no explanation. Those Brazed Plate Heat Exchangers use parallel threads which are not in any form suitable for sealing. They require fittings with gaskets or o-rings to effect the seal. They don't cope well with vibration or thermal cycling and therefore don't see use in refrigeration systems. Think about this. You have 200g of gas in your system, and your threaded connections leak gas at a tiny but significant rate. It's not very long until your critically charged system is no longer critically charged and things are not behaving as they should. By the way, disposable tanks are sealed with schrader valves, and the fitting that screws on to them is sealed by a *gasket* and not the thread. Do it whatever way you want to do it, but you have been given sound advice. As you say, you can accomplish this project completely on your own just fine, you just don't seem to want to listen to those of us that *have* done this many times over. Come back and let us know how it works out for you. |
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05-07-15, 04:15 AM | #17 |
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Brad hit it on the head. While flare fittings have no seals in them, they are installed with fine threads and generous clamping pressure applied, so the metal tubing is actually deformed to keep a tight seal. Propane bottles and automotive (AN) fittings use polymer seals which crush around the joint to make the leakproof connection. The NPT fittings are not rated for hydraulic high pressure at all.
In systems under a ton of capacity, I have had no good luck with mechanical connections. They tend to rattle everything apart, even sharp bends in tubing. If there are lines to run somewhere else, they get tied to the frame solidly and flared. Any leakage whatsoever will throw a big wrench in efficient operation. Last edited by jeff5may; 05-07-15 at 08:00 AM.. |
05-07-15, 07:53 AM | #18 | ||||
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http://www.grainger.com/product/ENERPAC-Hose-Fitting-46C623?s_pp=false&picUrl=//static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/46C623_AS01?$smthumb$ 3/8" NPT Reusable hydraulic hose fitting. I have a hot water pressure washer that uses plenty of 3/8" NPT fittings (OEM) that do not leak on a 3000 PSI, 200 degree heat exchanger with constant heat and pressure cycling. |
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05-07-15, 10:58 AM | #19 |
Supreme EcoRenovator
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You don't have to use the advice given. The whole journey that is engineering is founded on trying to make things work that might not. With enough super loctite and refrigerant, you can get a leak-free fitting or two. At least until something else breaks.
You stated you wanted the easiest, cheapest solution as well as reliable operation. To most of us, it is undisputed that a solid or brazed connection is not extremely difficult to perform. It is much easier over the long term to seal the refrigerant loop as strong as possible once and move on. O-rings and tapered threads can go in different places. Feel free to discard this free advice. Trial and error, my brother. |
05-07-15, 08:16 PM | #20 | ||
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I'm not here to prove anything to anybody and I am here to talk all day long about what works and what doesn't, and more importantly, WHY. As many posts as I've read here AC_Hacker constantly has a bad attitude like that. I also don't need to be treated like a child that knows nothing of the subject just because I happened to ask a question and have not been registered very long on this board. Quote:
I would never expect an A/C system built at home from junk and ebay parts would function perfectly and never leak from the very first try, would you? |
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