1948 Southern California coastal house renovation thread

[rhizomatic]

This will be a thread for collecting information and advice re: ecorenovating my house. It is a 1948 ranch-style wood-framed, raised foundation wood siding unit. It needs love and attention, and it is horribly inefficient.

In planning, I am keeping in mind our plans to expand the house upward one floor, yielding about 2000 sqft total, an ocean view, and more sunlight for fun and for better active and passive solar power.

First up is insulation and the replacement of the deceased gas heating furnace.

Per advice here at EcoRenovator, for the furnace replacement I am looking at air source heat pumps, planning with an eye to the larger 2000 sqft house it will eventually serve. I have a specialist coming out to the house on Tuesday to advise. I'm not committing. I'm just learning. I like how ASHPs can cool and heat and work with existing ducts. This house has never had AC, and though it is only needed rarely, I'd like to have it as a comfort and as a selling point one day.

But first up is insulation, also per advice here at ER. The house has none. I am completely inexperienced but willing to learn. For the walls I was considering blown insulation because I can't be breaking open walls with my family in the house ... but I read a little about problems with moisture and creating termite havens. Not good. I'll seal-up the house better and insulate the roof, floors, and ducts. For floor and roof insulation I could use advice on types, R-values, equipment, and then also for non-blown insulation for the under-house crawl space. [EDIT: I modified the point about blown insulation; I just read about some of the problems.]

All responses welcomed, and I'll update as I got forward this summer/fall.

Thx!

[S-F]

Cellulose doesn't have termite problems. Wood does. There is an abundance of stuff in cellulose that all insects don't work well with. Go cellulose of be prepared to tear your house apart to spray a petroleum product in that has a world of issues.

[rhizomatic]

Originally Posted by S-F

Cellulose doesn't have termite problems. Wood does. There is an abundance of stuff in cellulose that all insects don't work well with. Go cellulose of be prepared to tear your house apart to spray a petroleum product in that has a world of issues.

But some of the old house preservationists are concerned about moisture and about the blown insulation eventually bunching-up near the bottom of the wall voids it fills. They say that without the moisture barriers on contemporary construction, older homes should not use blown insulation. You disagree, but have you heard that argument? Anyone else heard that argument? It's not true?

[Daox]

The modern technique for filling wall cavities with cellulose is called dense pack. They actually blow the stuff in a hole and cram it in there. It does NOT settle. Loose blow, like many people use in their attic does settle somewhat over time, and you have to account for this when figuring out how much cellulose you need.

[S-F]

Dense packed cellulose will not settle. It's installed at a density much greater than any recorded pressure. Vaopr barriers and fiber glass are a great way to cause moisture issues. That is unless your envelope is 100% air tight. Call Bill Hulstrunk at National Fiber. He can give you decades of information proving this. Originally cellulose was installed with the "two hole method" which involved drilling a second hole to allow pressure to escape allowing the bay to be filled. This would settle. Now we have extremely powerful blowers which just plain jamb it in there and there are no recorded cases of settling when it's properly installed. When you open up a wall that's dense packed you quite literally have to caw it out. It's mattress firm. One of the great perks of cellulose is it's hygroscopic value. It buffers moisture up to 30% of it's weight before failure. If you have that much moisture in your wall you have bigger things to worry about than insulation performance because you've got a giant frik'n leak from your roof. It removes moisture from the places where you don't want it, like in framing lumber and sheet rock where all other forms of insulation do the opposite. That is that drive moisture into framing lumber and sheetrock.

[SimpleManLance]

Originally Posted by S-F

Dense packed cellulose will not settle. It's installed at a density much greater than any recorded pressure. Vaopr barriers and fiber glass are a great way to cause moisture issues. That is unless your envelope is 100% air tight. Call Bill Hulstrunk at National Fiber. He can give you decades of information proving this. Originally cellulose was installed with the "two hole method" which involved drilling a second hole to allow pressure to escape allowing the bay to be filled. This would settle. Now we have extremely powerful blowers which just plain jamb it in there and there are no recorded cases of settling when it's properly installed. When you open up a wall that's dense packed you quite literally have to caw it out. It's mattress firm. One of the great perks of cellulose is it's hygroscopic value. It buffers moisture up to 30% of it's weight before failure. If you have that much moisture in your wall you have bigger things to worry about than insulation performance because you've got a giant frik'n leak from your roof. It removes moisture from the places where you don't want it, like in framing lumber and sheet rock where all other forms of insulation do the opposite. That is that drive moisture into framing lumber and sheetrock.

reading this makes me wish i would have done dense packed cellulose rather then foam insulation.

[S-F]

Originally Posted by SimpleManLance

reading this makes me wish i would have done dense packed cellulose rather then foam insulation.

Yep. You did get close to 2x the initial R value though. In 25 years you won't have to worry about that though since it will outgas and you'll be at about R 4 x inch. IMO the only place for massive foam in a house (and it's a very good use of it I might add) is on the exterior of the sheathing, and there you can save a mint by using rigid foam.

[rhizomatic]

I will continue researching dense pack cellulose, what equipment I'll need, and techniques. Here is a useful video:

techniques

And I just found this PDF on specifications and techniques on builditsolar.com. Seems useful.

Thanks again.

But my most likely first step will be installing flooring insulation, via the crawlspace. Any reason not to just go with the typical faced R-19 fiberglass people here in Southern California seem to use now? I could maybe use R-30 if it fits the space, passes inspection, and is not pointless overkill, no? This area never freezes.

Also, reading about ceiling/roof insulation options for my 1948 ranch house with tongue and groove roofing. Thinking about a metal roof combined with a "radiant barrier" under a new metal roof top for the outside and on the inside some R-8 faced rigid foam at two or three inches thick. [EDIT: off gassing of the stuff bothers me, though. I would love greener alternatives suggestions.]

Today, tomorrow, and Thursday contractors come out to give me estimates on Air Source Heat Pump installations using my existing ducts. I'm not in a big hurry. I want to compare and think for a few more days/weeks. And I am learning about permitting, costs, and inspections for both the insulation and heat pump.

[rhizomatic]

Does anyone know if the intec force 1 blower is good enough for dense packing cellulose. The specs page indicates 3.0lbs psi, which I have read on here is too little pressure for true dense pack. FORCE/1 - Intec I'm not looking to buy, just to learn enough to rent intelligently. Here is a site that claims psi >= 2.9 is sufficient for 3.5lbs dense pack: http://www.inteccorp.com/site/files/...w_20120420.pdf

The Big Box stores are hopeless on this point. Lowe's and Home Depot do not have adequate equipment. But my thanks to a guy at Lowe's in Anaheim who helped me ID construction equipment rental specialists when I asked about them. I have two leads.

Is 3.0lbs psi insufficient?

BTW, I have three estimates for a 2.5 or 3.0 ton ASHP install, but I want to move on insulation a little more first. I'm told I'll get better rebates with more insulation installed.

[S-F]

The force 1 is the predecessor of the force 2, which is a decent machine. I haven't used the force 1 so I can't say.
2.9 is all you need to get to 3.5 and up.

I really want to stress that dense packing cellulose is a bit of an art and it can't be learned from reading or watching videos. It isn't particularly difficult but it is easy to do poorly. I work with people who have done this for months and years who still do a sub par job. Your best bet would be to have or make a friend who knows how to do it and have him go through the first couple bays with you in exchange for a case of beer or something like that.