08-13-14, 05:02 PM | #181 |
Apprentice EcoRenovator
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 131
Thanks: 13
Thanked 35 Times in 32 Posts
|
After a PM conversation with AC yesterday i agreed to write some code to hopefully get the GPHP controller started.
Below is a first draft, it compiles fine but i haven't had time to set up any hardware to test it. Flow sensors on D2 and D3 (input flow and output flow), have used this code before should it should work fine. Calibrated for 3/4" version of the flow meters AC showed, i think the calibration should be the same. D4 is input from thermostat, tank stat or whatever your heating. +5v to call for heat. D4, D5 and D4 are outputs to compressor, input pump and output pump. Thermistors on A0 and A1, this is untested code to me. Used thermistor library found here: Tutorial: Using NTC Thermistors With Arduino - GarageLab (arduino, electronics, robotics, hacking) A0 is evaporator temp (water return to loop field in GSHP) A1 is condensor temp, return from water tank or radiant floor. Please try it and tell me what doesn't work. This really is a first draft with much testing and many more features required. Steve AC I will start a thread on my system when i get chance. Code:
#include <Thermistor.h> double evaporator, condensor; //Variables for temperatures from thermistors float HpLPM; //Flow rate from flow meter in L/m float HpLPM1; //Flow rate from flow meter in L/m int minLPM = 3; //Minimum flowrate to run HP int minEv = 2; //Minimum evaporator temp int maxCon = 65; //Maximum condensor temp byte runHP = false; byte runCompressor = false; byte runOutPump = false; // pump to circulate water to house/tank byte runInPump = false; //fan in case of ASHP const int demandPin = 4; // input connected to external thermostat to request heat byte demand = false; // variable for reading if heat required from thermostat unsigned long compLR; // Time compressor was last run unsigned long hpStarted; // Time HP cycle started unsigned long hpStopped; // Time HP cycle stopped volatile int NbTopsFan; //measuring the rising edges of the signal volatile int NbTopsFan1; //measuring the rising edges of the signal int hallsensor = 2; //The pin location of the sensor int hallsensor1 = 3; //The pin location of the sensor byte led = 13; byte ledState = false; byte comp = 5; byte inPump = 6; byte outPump = 7; unsigned long prevMillis = 0; //used for led blinking Thermistor temp(0); Thermistor temp1(1); // ********************Temperature measurement starts here************** void readTemps() { //read all temperatures from thermistors evaporator = temp.getTemp(); condensor = temp1.getTemp(); } // ********************Temperature measurement ends here************** // ********************Flow meter reading starts here************** void hpFlow () //This is the function that the interupt calls { NbTopsFan++; //This function measures the rising and falling edge of the hall effect sensors signal } void hpFlow1 () //This is the function that the interupt calls { NbTopsFan1++; //This function measures the rising and falling edge of the hall effect sensors signal } void readFlows() { NbTopsFan = 0; //Set NbTops to 0 ready for calculations NbTopsFan1 = 0; //Set NbTops to 0 ready for calculations interrupts(); //Enables interrupts delay (1000); //Wait 1 second noInterrupts(); //Disable interrupts HpLPM = (NbTopsFan / 2.75); HpLPM = (NbTopsFan1 / 2.75); } // ********************Flow meter reading ends here************** void setup() { pinMode(hallsensor, INPUT); //initializes digital pin 2 as an input pinMode(hallsensor1, INPUT); //initializes digital pin 3 as an input attachInterrupt(0, hpFlow, RISING); //and the interrupt is attached (1 for Leonardo 0 for mega/uno) attachInterrupt(1, hpFlow1, RISING); //and the interrupt is attached (0 for Leonardo 1 for mega/uno) pinMode(led, OUTPUT); pinMode(comp, OUTPUT); pinMode(inPump, OUTPUT); pinMode(outPump, OUTPUT); pinMode(demandPin, INPUT); compLR = millis(); } void loop() { readTemps(); readFlows(); demand = digitalRead(demandPin); unsigned long tm = millis(); if ((demand == true) && (compLR <= (tm - 120000))) { if (runHP == false) hpStarted = tm; runHP = true; } else { if (runHP == true) hpStopped = tm; runHP = false; } //*****HP startup cycle******** if (runHP == true) runInPump = true; if ((runHP == true) && (hpStarted <= (tm - 30000) && (HpLPM > minLPM))) runCompressor = true; //Delay compressor start 30s after starting in pump if ((runHP == true) && (hpStarted <= (tm - 60000))) { runOutPump = true; //Delay out pump start 60s after starting in pump ledState = true; ///turn on pin 13 led after startup of HP } //*****HP shutdown cycle******** if (runHP == false) runCompressor = false; if ((runHP == false) && (hpStopped <= (tm - 120000))) runInPump = false; if ((runHP == false) && (hpStopped <= (tm - 300000))) { runOutPump = false; compLR = tm; ledState = false; ///turn off pin 13 led after shutdown of HP } //***Check flow rates above min*** if (HpLPM < minLPM || HpLPM1 < minLPM) { runCompressor = false; if (runHP == true) hpStopped = tm; compLR = (tm + 600000); //prevent cycle restart for 10m runHP = false; } //***Check evaporator/condensor above/below limits*** not intended for defrost purposes, halts system for 30m if (evaporator < minEv || condensor > maxCon) { runCompressor = false; if (runHP == true) hpStopped = tm; compLR = (tm + 1800000); //prevent cycle restart for 30m runHP = false; } digitalWrite(led, ledState); digitalWrite(comp, runCompressor); digitalWrite(inPump, runInPump); digitalWrite(outPump, runOutPump); } |
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Ormston For This Useful Post: |
08-13-14, 06:15 PM | #182 |
Supreme EcoRenovator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,004
Thanks: 303
Thanked 723 Times in 534 Posts
|
BBP,
Ormston has just offered new code, so I should get your comment here... Just looking at Ormston's code, it does include flow measurement, which is valuable. ...and Ko_deZ's code seemed locked up... What do you think? BTW, I think that since we are going without a Wiki or anything, if changes are made to some version of code, we should zip the new sketch and attach to any comment. I also think that we should consider Ko_deZ's code and Ormston's current code to each be Rev00, and if we make mods we should cite the base code-source and increment the sketch we use as a basis for our mod. For instance, a sketch with a mod to Ormston's code might begin with: Code:
//Ormston Rev01 #include <Thermistor.h> double evaporator, condensor; //Variables for temperatures from thermistors float HpLPM; //Flow rate from flow meter in L/m float HpLPM1; //Flow rate from flow meter in L/m int minLPM = 3; //Minimum flowrate to run HP int minEv = 2; . . . Code:
//Ko_dez Rev12 /* First some legal mumbo jumbo: This program is free software: you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by . . . ETC. Does this seem agreeable to all? Best, -AC
__________________
I'm not an HVAC technician. In fact, I'm barely even a hacker... |
The Following User Says Thank You to AC_Hacker For This Useful Post: | buffalobillpatrick (08-13-14) |
08-13-14, 06:26 PM | #183 |
Supreme EcoRenovator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,004
Thanks: 303
Thanked 723 Times in 534 Posts
|
Steve,
I'm running Arduino 1.0.5-r2 And my hardware is Arduino Uno r3 (Chinese clone) I tried to compile the code and here is the error merssage %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Arduino: 1.0.5-r2 (Windows 7), Board: "Arduino Uno" D:\ARDUINO\arduino-1.0.5-r2-windows\arduino-1.0.5-r2\hardware\tools\avr\bin\avr-g++ -c -g -Os -Wall -fno-exceptions -ffunction-sections -fdata-sections -mmcu=atmega328p -DF_CPU=16000000L -MMD -DUSB_VID=null -DUSB_PID=null -DARDUINO=105 -ID:\ARDUINO\arduino-1.0.5-r2-windows\arduino-1.0.5-r2\hardware\arduino\cores\arduino -ID:\ARDUINO\arduino-1.0.5-r2-windows\arduino-1.0.5-r2\hardware\arduino\variants\standard C:\Users\i7-BOX\AppData\Local\Temp\build7816747282355614957.tm p\Ormston_sketch_aug12a.cpp -o C:\Users\i7-BOX\AppData\Local\Temp\build7816747282355614957.tm p\Ormston_sketch_aug12a.cpp.o Ormston_sketch_aug12a.ino:1:24: warning: Thermistor.h: No such file or directory Ormston_sketch_aug12a:29: error: 'Thermistor' does not name a type Ormston_sketch_aug12a:30: error: 'Thermistor' does not name a type Ormston_sketch_aug12a.ino: In function 'void readTemps()': Ormston_sketch_aug12a:34: error: 'temp' was not declared in this scope Ormston_sketch_aug12a:35: error: 'temp1' was not declared in this scope %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Gotta go for a break... Back soon. -AC
__________________
I'm not an HVAC technician. In fact, I'm barely even a hacker... |
08-13-14, 08:29 PM | #184 |
Master EcoRenovator
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Florissant, Colorado
Posts: 599
Thanks: 814
Thanked 59 Times in 55 Posts
|
A/C I got same error, on my Arduino Uno r3 (Chinese clone) different brand.
I downloaded the referenced zip file, put it into my libraries folder, unziped it At Sketch Import library, clicked Thermister & compile now works Last edited by buffalobillpatrick; 08-13-14 at 08:40 PM.. |
08-13-14, 09:51 PM | #185 | |
Supreme EcoRenovator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,004
Thanks: 303
Thanked 723 Times in 534 Posts
|
Quote:
Maybe I was under a false impression, but I thought that it was possible to call a "library_name.zip" file from within the Arduino IDE, and have it automatically integrated into the library directory. Maybe I was making things too complicated. I followed your method, and all is compiling now. -AC
__________________
I'm not an HVAC technician. In fact, I'm barely even a hacker... |
|
The Following User Says Thank You to AC_Hacker For This Useful Post: | buffalobillpatrick (08-14-14) |
08-14-14, 01:44 AM | #186 |
Supreme EcoRenovator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,004
Thanks: 303
Thanked 723 Times in 534 Posts
|
The paint has dried in my prototype board, and I have put the main pieces into place.
Ormston's notes on the pin assignments are shown below: D00 - (N/A) D01 - (N/A) D02 - Flow Sensor (indoor) D03 - Flow Sensor (outdoor) D04 - Call For Heat (+5V) D05 - Compressor ON D06 - Pump ON (indoor) D07 - Pump ON (outdoor) D08 - (N/A) D09 - (N/A) D10 - (N/A) D11 - (N/A) D12 - (N/A) D13 - LED A00 - Thermistor (evaporator temperature) A01 - Thermistor (condenser temperature) A02 - (N/A) A03 - (N/A) A04 - (N/A) A05 - (N/A) So I connected the hardware together, per Ormston's pin descriptions. I'm using SSR's for now just because they have screw-down wire terminals for inputs and out puts, so no flat cable fabrication is required. SSR Relays are connected to the Uno outputs as below:
I don't yet have the thermistors hooked up, no pumps hooked up, no flow sensors hooked up. But I did hook up power and observed the controller's behavior. Upon power up, the LEDs of the SSR that were driven by Uno digital output pins D7 (outdoot pump) and D6 (indoor pump), Both began to blink 24 blinks at roughly equal intervals. After that only the SSR LED connected to D6 (indoor pump) continued to blink for 24 blinks at roughly equal intervals After that neither SSR LED blinked. Looks to me that the pattern is to pulse the pumps and to sense with the flow meters if water is flowing. I'm sure that the other goodness will be apparent one the thermistors and flow meters are hooked up. Thanks to everyone who has helped... it's starting to come to life! Best, -AC
__________________
I'm not an HVAC technician. In fact, I'm barely even a hacker... Last edited by AC_Hacker; 08-14-14 at 06:44 AM.. |
The Following User Says Thank You to AC_Hacker For This Useful Post: | buffalobillpatrick (08-14-14) |
08-14-14, 02:34 AM | #187 |
Apprentice EcoRenovator
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 131
Thanks: 13
Thanked 35 Times in 32 Posts
|
AC
Outputs shouldn't be blinking so I,be got an issue somewhere. Also will need the ability to disable flow sensors or we won,t get very far with testing. Will take a look later, off to work now. |
The Following User Says Thank You to Ormston For This Useful Post: | buffalobillpatrick (08-14-14) |
08-14-14, 06:46 AM | #188 | |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: US
Posts: 150
Thanks: 7
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
|
Quote:
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to ICanHas For This Useful Post: | buffalobillpatrick (08-14-14) |
08-14-14, 07:07 AM | #189 |
Apprentice EcoRenovator
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 131
Thanks: 13
Thanked 35 Times in 32 Posts
|
Try this V0.00001
Made a couple of corrections and added input D8 to simulate flow sensors reading 10L/m for testing. Run code on simulator and seems OKish except the thermistor code, can't get additional lib's to work in the simulator for some reason. Code:
#include <Thermistor.h> double evaporator, condensor; //Variables for temperatures from thermistors float HpLPM; //Flow rate from flow meter in L/m float HpLPM1; //Flow rate from flow meter in L/m int minLPM = 3; //Minimum flowrate to run HP int minEv = 2; //Minimum evaporator temp int maxCon = 65; //Maximum condensor temp byte runHP = false; byte runCompressor = false; byte runOutPump = false; // pump to circulate water to house/tank byte runInPump = false; //fan in case of ASHP const int demandPin = 4; // input connected to external thermostat to request heat byte demand = false; // variable for reading if heat required from thermostat unsigned long compLR; // Time compressor was last run unsigned long hpStarted; // Time HP cycle started unsigned long hpStopped; // Time HP cycle stopped volatile int NbTopsFan; //measuring the rising edges of the signal volatile int NbTopsFan1; //measuring the rising edges of the signal int hallsensor = 2; //The pin location of the sensor int hallsensor1 = 3; //The pin location of the sensor byte led = 13; byte ledState = false; byte comp = 5; byte inPump = 6; byte outPump = 7; unsigned long prevMillis = 0; //used for led blinking Thermistor temp(0); Thermistor temp1(1); byte simulateFlow = false; // ********************Temperature measurement starts here************** void readTemps() { //read all temperatures from thermistors evaporator = temp.getTemp(); condensor = temp1.getTemp(); //evaporator = 20; //condensor = 20; } // ********************Temperature measurement ends here************** // ********************Flow meter reading starts here************** void hpFlow () //This is the function that the interupt calls { NbTopsFan++; //This function measures the rising and falling edge of the hall effect sensors signal } void hpFlow1 () //This is the function that the interupt calls { NbTopsFan1++; //This function measures the rising and falling edge of the hall effect sensors signal } void readFlows() { NbTopsFan = 0; //Set NbTops to 0 ready for calculations NbTopsFan1 = 0; //Set NbTops to 0 ready for calculations interrupts(); //Enables interrupts delay (1000); //Wait 1 second noInterrupts(); //Disable interrupts HpLPM = (NbTopsFan / 2.75); HpLPM1 = (NbTopsFan1 / 2.75); simulateFlow = digitalRead(8); if (simulateFlow == true) { HpLPM = 10; HpLPM1 = 10; } } // ********************Flow meter reading ends here************** void setup() { pinMode(hallsensor, INPUT); //initializes digital pin 2 as an input pinMode(hallsensor1, INPUT); //initializes digital pin 3 as an input attachInterrupt(0, hpFlow, RISING); //and the interrupt is attached (1 for Leonardo 0 for mega/uno) attachInterrupt(1, hpFlow1, RISING); //and the interrupt is attached (0 for Leonardo 1 for mega/uno) pinMode(led, OUTPUT); pinMode(comp, OUTPUT); pinMode(inPump, OUTPUT); pinMode(outPump, OUTPUT); pinMode(demandPin, INPUT); compLR = millis(); pinMode(8, INPUT); //disable flow sensors for testing, high simulates 10L/m } void loop() { readTemps(); readFlows(); demand = digitalRead(demandPin); unsigned long tm = millis(); if ((demand == true) && (compLR <= (tm - 120000))) { if (runHP == false) hpStarted = tm; runHP = true; } else { if (runHP == true) hpStopped = tm; runHP = false; } //*****HP startup cycle******** if (runHP == true) runInPump = true; if ((runHP == true) && (hpStarted <= (tm - 30000) && (HpLPM > minLPM))) runCompressor = true; //Delay compressor start 30s after starting in pump if ((runHP == true) && (hpStarted <= (tm - 60000))) { runOutPump = true; //Delay out pump start 60s after starting in pump ledState = true; ///turn on pin 13 led after startup of HP } //*****HP shutdown cycle******** if (runHP == false) runCompressor = false; if ((runHP == false) && (hpStopped <= (tm - 120000))) runInPump = false; if ((runHP == false) && (hpStopped <= (tm - 300000))) { if (runOutPump == true && ledState == true) compLR = tm; runOutPump = false; ledState = false; ///turn off pin 13 led after shutdown of HP } //***Check flow rates above min*** if ((runOutPump == true) && HpLPM < minLPM || HpLPM1 < minLPM) { runCompressor = false; if (runHP == true) { hpStopped = tm; compLR = (tm + 600000); //prevent cycle restart for 10m runHP = false; } } //***Check evaporator/condensor above/below limits*** not intended for defrost purposes, halts system for 30m if (evaporator < minEv || condensor > maxCon) { runCompressor = false; if (runHP == true) hpStopped = tm; compLR = (tm + 1800000); //prevent cycle restart for 30m runHP = false; } digitalWrite(led, ledState); digitalWrite(comp, runCompressor); digitalWrite(inPump, runInPump); digitalWrite(outPump, runOutPump); } |
The Following User Says Thank You to Ormston For This Useful Post: | buffalobillpatrick (08-14-14) |
08-14-14, 03:42 PM | #190 |
Apprentice EcoRenovator
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 131
Thanks: 13
Thanked 35 Times in 32 Posts
|
Spent some more time trying to get the thermistor lib used in the sketches above working.
For whatever reason it doesn't work in an Arduino simulator so unless anyone has any objections i'm going to ditch the lib and use more conventional thermistor code. Steve Code:
/*Ormston GPHPC Rev02 D00 - (N/A) D01 - (N/A) D02 - Flow Sensor (indoor) D03 - Flow Sensor (outdoor) D04 - Call For Heat (+5V) D05 - Compressor ON D06 - Pump ON (indoor) D07 - Pump ON (outdoor) D08 - Simulate flow sensors(sets flow to 10L/m for testing) D09 - (N/A) D10 - (N/A) D11 - (N/A) D12 - (N/A) D13 - LED A00 - Thermistor (evaporator temperature) A01 - Thermistor (condenser temperature) A02 - (N/A) A03 - (N/A) A04 - (N/A) A05 - (N/A) */ #include <math.h> double evaporator, condensor; //Variables for temperatures from thermistors float HpLPM; //Flow rate from flow meter in L/m float HpLPM1; //Flow rate from flow meter in L/m int minLPM = 3; //Minimum flowrate to run HP int minEv = 2; //Minimum evaporator temp int maxCon = 65; //Maximum condensor temp byte runHP = false; byte runCompressor = false; byte runOutPump = false; // pump to circulate water to house/tank byte runInPump = false; //fan in case of ASHP const int demandPin = 4; // input connected to external thermostat to request heat byte demand = false; // variable for reading if heat required from thermostat unsigned long compLR; // Time compressor was last run unsigned long hpStarted; // Time HP cycle started unsigned long hpStopped; // Time HP cycle stopped volatile int NbTopsFan; //measuring the rising edges of the signal volatile int NbTopsFan1; //measuring the rising edges of the signal int hallsensor = 2; //The pin location of the sensor int hallsensor1 = 3; //The pin location of the sensor byte led = 13; byte ledState = false; byte comp = 5; byte inPump = 6; byte outPump = 7; unsigned long prevMillis = 0; //used for led blinking byte simulateFlow = false; float pad = 9850; // balance/pad resistor value, set this to // the measured resistance of your pad resistor float thermr = 10000; // thermistor nominal resistance // ********************Temperature measurement starts here************** float Thermistor(int RawADC) { long Resistance; float Temp; // Dual-Purpose variable to save space. Resistance=((1024 * pad / RawADC) - pad); Temp = log(Resistance); // Saving the Log(resistance) so not to calculate it 4 times later Temp = 1 / (0.001129148 + (0.000234125 * Temp) + (0.0000000876741 * Temp * Temp * Temp)); Temp = Temp - 273.15; // Convert Kelvin to Celsius //temp = (Temp * 9.0)/ 5.0 + 32.0; // Convert to Fahrenheit return Temp; // Return the Temperature } void readTemps() { //read all temperatures from thermistors evaporator = Thermistor(analogRead(A0)); // read ADC and convert it to Celsius condensor = Thermistor(analogRead(A1)); // read ADC and convert it to Celsius //evaporator = 20; //condensor = 20; } // ********************Temperature measurement ends here************** // ********************Flow meter reading starts here************** void hpFlow () //This is the function that the interupt calls { NbTopsFan++; //This function measures the rising and falling edge of the hall effect sensors signal } void hpFlow1 () //This is the function that the interupt calls { NbTopsFan1++; //This function measures the rising and falling edge of the hall effect sensors signal } void readFlows() { NbTopsFan = 0; //Set NbTops to 0 ready for calculations NbTopsFan1 = 0; //Set NbTops to 0 ready for calculations interrupts(); //Enables interrupts delay (1000); //Wait 1 second noInterrupts(); //Disable interrupts HpLPM = (NbTopsFan / 2.75); HpLPM1 = (NbTopsFan1 / 2.75); simulateFlow = digitalRead(8); if (simulateFlow == true) { HpLPM = 10; HpLPM1 = 10; } } // ********************Flow meter reading ends here************** void setup() { pinMode(hallsensor, INPUT); //initializes digital pin 2 as an input pinMode(hallsensor1, INPUT); //initializes digital pin 3 as an input attachInterrupt(0, hpFlow, RISING); //and the interrupt is attached (1 for Leonardo 0 for mega/uno) attachInterrupt(1, hpFlow1, RISING); //and the interrupt is attached (0 for Leonardo 1 for mega/uno) pinMode(led, OUTPUT); pinMode(comp, OUTPUT); pinMode(inPump, OUTPUT); pinMode(outPump, OUTPUT); pinMode(demandPin, INPUT); compLR = millis(); pinMode(8, INPUT); //disable flow sensors for testing, high simulates 10L/m } void loop() { readTemps(); readFlows(); demand = digitalRead(demandPin); unsigned long tm = millis(); if ((demand == true) && (compLR <= (tm - 120000))) { if (runHP == false) hpStarted = tm; runHP = true; } else { if (runHP == true) hpStopped = tm; runHP = false; } //*****HP startup cycle******** if (runHP == true) runInPump = true; if ((runHP == true) && (hpStarted <= (tm - 30000) && (HpLPM > minLPM))) runCompressor = true; //Delay compressor start 30s after starting in pump if ((runHP == true) && (hpStarted <= (tm - 60000))) { runOutPump = true; //Delay out pump start 60s after starting in pump ledState = true; ///turn on pin 13 led after startup of HP } //*****HP shutdown cycle******** if (runHP == false) runCompressor = false; if ((runHP == false) && (hpStopped <= (tm - 120000))) runInPump = false; if ((runHP == false) && (hpStopped <= (tm - 300000))) { if (runOutPump == true && ledState == true) compLR = tm; runOutPump = false; ledState = false; ///turn off pin 13 led after shutdown of HP } //***Check flow rates above min*** if ((runOutPump == true) && HpLPM < minLPM || HpLPM1 < minLPM) { runCompressor = false; if (runHP == true) { hpStopped = tm; compLR = (tm + 600000); //prevent cycle restart for 10m runHP = false; } } //***Check evaporator/condensor above/below limits*** not intended for defrost purposes, halts system for 30m if (evaporator < minEv || condensor > maxCon) { runCompressor = false; if (runHP == true) hpStopped = tm; compLR = (tm + 1800000); //prevent cycle restart for 30m runHP = false; } digitalWrite(led, ledState); digitalWrite(comp, runCompressor); digitalWrite(inPump, runInPump); digitalWrite(outPump, runOutPump); } |
The Following User Says Thank You to Ormston For This Useful Post: | buffalobillpatrick (09-09-14) |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|