The world is watching California open the way for the development of clean electricit

[Kimi Xiong]

Governor Jerry Brown signed a bill that puts California on an ambitious path:
--Using 100% clean electricity by 2045.

The measure also speeds up the renewable target already in place to 50% by 2025 and 60% by 2030.

[oil pan 4]

Put them on the path to having the most expensive energy in the country by far is about all he did.

[Kimi Xiong]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

Put them on the path to having the most expensive energy in the country by far is about all he did.

Why do you think it's the most expensive? The price of wind and solar are going down

[oil pan 4]

Originally Posted by Kimi Xiong

Why do you think it's the most expensive? The price of wind and solar are going down

Because it's still around $1 to $2 per watt to install for name plate rating. The only problem is fixed arrays only produce good power for about 5 hours a day.
Looking at solar for what it actually generates total it's more like 5 times the cost of any other fossil fuel plant.

If solar power is so cheap then surely you can name a very long list of places that use mostly solar power generation and provide cheaper power than what people get from fossil fuel power generation?

In New Mexico prefixture the people's party candidate is running for election here. They are promising a renewable power mandate of 50% by 2030.
New Mexico will achieve 50% clean power on its own, using mostly wind power with out any additional government incentives probably by about 2040.
If the government gets involved to force change they are just going to screw it up.

[where2]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

Because it's still around $1 to $2 per watt to install for name plate rating. The only problem is fixed arrays only produce good power for about 5 hours a day.
Looking at solar for what it actually generates total it's more like 5 times the cost of any other fossil fuel plant.

If solar power is so expensive, why am I getting at least half a dozen solar power plant proposals across my desk at work every year in a state with NO mandate and quota for renewable energy? My state government has even banned the use of the phrase "climate change" and "global warming" (as if speaking the phrase was the cause of the problem??). These aren't DIY homeowner PV arrays, these are 500 acre 75MW zero emission power plants. These PV plants are being built after the power company has already upgraded most every power plant they have to modern NG turbine setups, which given the recent boom in NG production in the USA has made those NG powered systems cheap to run.

Could my power company be gearing up for the next inning in this game where carbon emitters start having to carry some of the cost for their emissions, and a PV array sitting on a former orange grove looks like power to the people without CO2 emissions??

[oil pan 4]

Originally Posted by where2

If solar power is so expensive, why am I getting at least half a dozen solar power plant proposals across my desk at work every year in a state with NO mandate and quota for renewable energy? My state government has even banned the use of the phrase "climate change" and "global warming" (as if speaking the phrase was the cause of the problem??). These aren't DIY homeowner PV arrays, these are 500 acre 75MW zero emission power plants. These PV plants are being built after the power company has already upgraded most every power plant they have to modern NG turbine setups, which given the recent boom in NG production in the USA has made those NG powered systems cheap to run.

Could my power company be gearing up for the next inning in this game where carbon emitters start having to carry some of the cost for their emissions, and a PV array sitting on a former orange grove looks like power to the people without CO2 emissions??

Easy.
When you need to handle peak load for 4 or 5 hours it's likely cheaper to put in solar panels than it is to build natural gas turbines that are only going to be ran for 4 or 5 hours a day.

HI is a monument to unsustainability. Literally anything would be an improvement over shipping coal or oil 2000 miles to generate power.

[MN Renovator]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

Put them on the path to having the most expensive energy in the country by far is about all he did.

Maybe in the 48, but Hawaii has them beat because they are basically importing all of the fossil fuels needed to run their power plants and it is not cheap to float those boats all the way down there. In their case solar plus storage is turning out to significantly reduce their electric generation costs. Over time the natural gas fracking glut will go away and even now most power companies no longer want to deal with coal and are transitioning away from it, so cost factors are likely to change. I don't see fossil fuels becoming a cheaper option over time, but that is the case for renewables, especially at the utility scale.

[CrankyDoug]

I thought they already had the most expensive energy in the country.

Perhaps Governor Brown believes a Tesla Powerwall 2 will be $197 at Walmart for Black Friday this year.

I give the Californians credit for taking the lead on this. Unfortunately, I think it is more of the old recklessness (buy now and bill it to your kids) than courage.

[pinballlooking]

I am very pro solar but I don’t think the government should tell you have to install it when you build a house.
CA housing is already crazy prices.

[jjackstone]

I believe oilpan's assessment is correct at least for now. However as costs associated with panels, storage and installation continue to decrease I expect solar will displace fossil fuels as the main source of electricity at lower prices than current fossil driven plants. I don't expect solar to eliminate fossil fuel use for many years though. Solar is still in its infancy as far as large industries go. There is still a lot of research to be done to reach maximum efficiencies, to make better, less expensive and more reliable electronics and to store the energy produced. Here is a look at the cost trends of utility size solar.
https://blog.ucsusa.org/john-rogers/...r-gets-cheaper

As far as Florida goes. From what I've read over the last few years, the utilities there have done everything they possibly could to keep individuals from installing and owning their own solar including buying government officials and spreading false and misleading information. IIRC the laws were finally changed to make it easier for the individual homeowner to own and install solar. My guess is now that the utilities can't control what the individual does, they are trying to get out in front of what they perceive as a problem and convince the general public that they are really good guys and want the best for them.
A short excerpt from the battle.
"The defeat is a major blow to the state’s largest investor-owned utilities, who poured more than $20 million into the political committee backing the initiative, Consumers for Smart Solar. A handful of other groups, which were also heavily financed by utilities, spent another $6 million promoting the amendment."

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/pol...113449438.html

JJ