![]() |
|
![]() |
#1 |
Apprentice EcoRenovator
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 123
Thanks: 14
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
|
![]() Just a quick thought... if the below ground temp is always ~55*, could one not produce electricity with a properly sized thermo-siphon system setup the same way as a geo-heat pump?
Dig a hole 2 feet across, 20 feet down, and 10 feet wide, make a loop of 18 inch dia. pipe with a generator in circuit with it and a burp valve at the highest point, fill it with active propylene glycol, then bury half of it in the hole, and leave half exposed... temperature gets below 45* air temp, the fluid starts to circulate, driving the generator, which (in theory) should then create electricity, right? Has this been done? How much electricity could one generate using the specs I've laid out? Would it even be worth it? Found this:http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/4546608/claims.html Last edited by Christ; 09-03-09 at 08:59 PM.. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 |
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 5,525
Thanks: 1,162
Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts
|
![]() I'm sure it could be done, and its a very interesting idea. However, unless you have a significant thermal differential, there really isn't much power to be harnessed. The medium just won't build up enough momentum/pressure to generate a useful amount of energy.
I wonder if this idea wouldn't be better suited to use in a solar hot water setup? The temperature differential there would be much higher.
__________________
Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#3 |
Apprentice EcoRenovator
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 123
Thanks: 14
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
|
![]() I never noticed a reply to this... sorry
I actually wondered the same thing, because I plan on using the solar-thermal heating system... During the summer, much of that heat generated in the coil and circulated by thermo-siphon would be wasted by the thermo-valves of the house diverting the coolant in the lines that make up the cooling coils... most likely under an outdoor pool or man-pond, perhaps a hot tub as well. Either way, the temp differential could be up to or beyond 100 degrees if I can cool the upper end of the system to air-temp and the hot end gets up to 170+... 100 degrees over 300-500 feet could develop a significant flow, I'd think... I just don't know how to calculate how much power it could actually generate... |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 |
Master EcoRenovator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Western Wisconsin.
Posts: 913
Thanks: 127
Thanked 82 Times in 71 Posts
|
![]() I suspect you could get an inch or so of head in the dead of winter, I'm sure there are charts out there on thermosyphen temps and the head they produce, you would get about as much power out of it as you could get out of the slope on your floor by spilling a glass of water...
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#5 | ||
Apprentice EcoRenovator
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 123
Thanks: 14
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
|
![]() Quote:
Quote:
|
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 |
Apprentice EcoRenovator
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 123
Thanks: 14
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
|
![]() The part I'm particularly concerned with is the "Face velocities of 250-600 FPM"... that tells me that it could go anywhere from 4.1 FPS to 10 FPS with a temp difference of over 40 degF... oddly, I can be assured of a temp difference (like I said) of up to 100 degF, and somedays even more, albeit for short periods of time. (Several hours a day, while the sun is between the hills I'll be building between.)
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 |
Electrical Renovator
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oregon Coast
Posts: 2
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
![]() Whether or not its possible, changing energy forms 3 times just in generation doesn't seem efficient at all (Thermal to hydrolic, hydrolic to mechanical in the generator, mechanical to electrical). This seems like a electrical generation source of last resort. Better to use thermal energy for thermal loads, mechanical energy for mechanical loads, etc, and reduce losses. The energy available to such a device should suit the end use needs.
Though if its waste heat from solar collectors, free is free, technically efficient or not. Last edited by JimmyClovis; 12-10-09 at 09:52 PM.. Reason: I have solar collectors. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#8 | |
Apprentice EcoRenovator
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 123
Thanks: 14
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
|
![]() Quote:
I plan on heating my house as much as is possible with a solar thermosiphon system. Before I thought about thermal storage, there was going to be waste heat generated that would need to be cycled off somewhere, and the idea was to use it to create a few extra watts of electricity if it were feasible. Since I won't have sun every day or for days at a time through the winter, and there is limited sun to begin with on my plot, so thermal storage is a necessity, which means that cycling the fluid back through the thermal storage will be more efficient. I'm hoping to be able to get about 1,000 gallons worth of tanks for storage. I'm going to see if I can put a tank inside a tank, seal the inner tank and outer tank, and vacuum the space between them, to create a thermos bottle of heated thermal fluid. I dont' really want to run ethylene glycol, I'd rather use something that's ecologically not destructive, should it leak. I hope I can run a mineral brine, but I'm having a hard time finding info on thermal fluid types. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#9 |
Suncatcher
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Spiritwood, Northern Saskatchewan
Posts: 42
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
|
![]() A thermosyphon works because of the difference in density in two vertical runs of a loop. If your rising pipe contains 100 lbs of water, and the cool side has 101 in the same volume, you have a one pound force available. Usually friction in the system will take up all the available power, but you could figure flow rates, etc. It is probably the least efficient heat engine ever, but sometimes adequate and convenient as part of another system.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#10 |
Supreme EcoRenovator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,004
Thanks: 303
Thanked 724 Times in 534 Posts
|
![]() The contents of this post can be found in the following post...
Last edited by AC_Hacker; 11-24-10 at 01:59 PM.. Reason: repeated post |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
|
|