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phreich · 07-02-14, 06:21 AM

Hi AC Hacker,

I have been lurking in this forum and reading your thread on doing a DIY cheap GSHP installation on Portland over the last year or so. I am interested in doing this myself as well. I live in the Portland metro area too. I guess it's about time I made a post.

I am a handyman by trade, and a jack-of-all-trades by predilection. I have been noodling with the idea of a GSHP since I discovered that People's Food Coop in Portland put one in I recall about 10 years ago.

The thing that's been most daunting to me is the trench or bore-hole requirement. I need to put in somewhere between 2 ton and 2.5 ton unit. That means 400-500 combined feet of bore holes (I live on an acre, but am unwilling to deal with that much yard excavation to put in a slinky system). I also don't think that the slinky system really is all that great since it is only 4 feet underground and so is effected by temperature changes in a negative way (when you need heat the ground at 4 feet is colder, and when you want cooling the ground at 4 feet is warmer).

Soooo, I have been trying to figure out a way to drill my own 50 foot bore holes. This would put me above the water table (about 67 feet at my location). I have been looking at some web-sites on drilling your own wells -- mostly by folks in the southern US states -- and they seem to think that 30 feet is about the limit to using a water-cutting method. However, there are folks using a recirculating mud method that go deeper, and one guy in Oregon that uses a combination of compressed air and water to go deeper.
Here are some links on the well drilling:
How to Drill Your Own Water Well
(this guy has been doing this in the deep south for years now. Although it's a .com domain, he's not trying to make money selling stuff -- it's really kind of a forum for DIY wells.
On this site, he discusses various methods, and this is where I found out about the recirculating mud method, and about the guy in Oregon using the compressed air and water method. I'm a bit confused about who this is -- the video is by a fellow named Paul Smith, but the kit is ordered from a guy named Lee on the Oregon Coast.
Here's a link to the video of the Oregon guy's stuff:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...NS4awOxrI#t=37
Here's a page on the first guy's website that discusses this air/water method:
How to Drill Your Own Water Well
Their address to order the air/water kit is:
bluewaterenterprises@Safe-mail.net

No offense, but I think the augur method won't work very well for the depth that is needed at my site.

Soooo, I am looking to self-drill 8-10 50 foot drywells and use a recirculating closed-loop system like you are doing. I see that some folks in the south are using extraction wells and pumping ground water and then disposing of it in drywells. Maybe I am missing something, but it would seem the energy needed to move the water up out of the ground would cost more than the better temperature differential the cooler ground water would have over the recirculated water. I also wonder about the long-term effect of percolating that much water in the summer months into the ground. On the other hand, I could keep my lawn, flower beds, and garden VERY happy in the summer with all that water.

Actually, after writing this last bit about pumping ground water, I am wondering if maybe using ground water might pencil out after-all. Especially if I used it for irrigation purposes, and maybe for a decorative stream and pond. Hmmm, I'll have to think and do some more research on that... I am concerned about what the Oregon DEQ would say about doing this. I think they are scared enough about the possibility of leaking closed loop systems -- what would they think about the possibility of a contamination of an extraction/injection well system?

The major concern, of course would be the heat exchanger process -- if the heat exchanger ruptured, the compressor oils could go into the ground. However, I would think that a safety could easily be set up to shut down the system should the pressure drop due to a coolant leak. How worse or better would the contamination of the compressor oil be compared to the ethylene glycol typically used in close-loop systems leaking into the ground?

Enough of my digression regarding extraction/injection well GSHP....

I also am wondering about using the heat extracted in the summer to produce my hot water, and wonder how much I would save by using the GSHP to heat it from the ground source in the winter (I currently have a natural gas water heater).

07-02-14, 06:21 AM	#1699
phreich Avid DIY GSHP novitiate Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Milwaukie, OR Posts: 22 Thanks: 2 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Hi AC Hacker, I have been lurking in this forum and reading your thread on doing a DIY cheap GSHP installation on Portland over the last year or so. I am interested in doing this myself as well. I live in the Portland metro area too. I guess it's about time I made a post. I am a handyman by trade, and a jack-of-all-trades by predilection. I have been noodling with the idea of a GSHP since I discovered that People's Food Coop in Portland put one in I recall about 10 years ago. The thing that's been most daunting to me is the trench or bore-hole requirement. I need to put in somewhere between 2 ton and 2.5 ton unit. That means 400-500 combined feet of bore holes (I live on an acre, but am unwilling to deal with that much yard excavation to put in a slinky system). I also don't think that the slinky system really is all that great since it is only 4 feet underground and so is effected by temperature changes in a negative way (when you need heat the ground at 4 feet is colder, and when you want cooling the ground at 4 feet is warmer). Soooo, I have been trying to figure out a way to drill my own 50 foot bore holes. This would put me above the water table (about 67 feet at my location). I have been looking at some web-sites on drilling your own wells -- mostly by folks in the southern US states -- and they seem to think that 30 feet is about the limit to using a water-cutting method. However, there are folks using a recirculating mud method that go deeper, and one guy in Oregon that uses a combination of compressed air and water to go deeper. Here are some links on the well drilling: How to Drill Your Own Water Well (this guy has been doing this in the deep south for years now. Although it's a .com domain, he's not trying to make money selling stuff -- it's really kind of a forum for DIY wells. On this site, he discusses various methods, and this is where I found out about the recirculating mud method, and about the guy in Oregon using the compressed air and water method. I'm a bit confused about who this is -- the video is by a fellow named Paul Smith, but the kit is ordered from a guy named Lee on the Oregon Coast. Here's a link to the video of the Oregon guy's stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...NS4awOxrI#t=37 Here's a page on the first guy's website that discusses this air/water method: How to Drill Your Own Water Well Their address to order the air/water kit is: bluewaterenterprises@Safe-mail.net No offense, but I think the augur method won't work very well for the depth that is needed at my site. Soooo, I am looking to self-drill 8-10 50 foot drywells and use a recirculating closed-loop system like you are doing. I see that some folks in the south are using extraction wells and pumping ground water and then disposing of it in drywells. Maybe I am missing something, but it would seem the energy needed to move the water up out of the ground would cost more than the better temperature differential the cooler ground water would have over the recirculated water. I also wonder about the long-term effect of percolating that much water in the summer months into the ground. On the other hand, I could keep my lawn, flower beds, and garden VERY happy in the summer with all that water. Actually, after writing this last bit about pumping ground water, I am wondering if maybe using ground water might pencil out after-all. Especially if I used it for irrigation purposes, and maybe for a decorative stream and pond. Hmmm, I'll have to think and do some more research on that... I am concerned about what the Oregon DEQ would say about doing this. I think they are scared enough about the possibility of leaking closed loop systems -- what would they think about the possibility of a contamination of an extraction/injection well system? The major concern, of course would be the heat exchanger process -- if the heat exchanger ruptured, the compressor oils could go into the ground. However, I would think that a safety could easily be set up to shut down the system should the pressure drop due to a coolant leak. How worse or better would the contamination of the compressor oil be compared to the ethylene glycol typically used in close-loop systems leaking into the ground? Enough of my digression regarding extraction/injection well GSHP.... I also am wondering about using the heat extracted in the summer to produce my hot water, and wonder how much I would save by using the GSHP to heat it from the ground source in the winter (I currently have a natural gas water heater).