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Mikesolar · 04-01-15, 05:10 AM

UMMM, Barry, the way you describe it, is the way is was here 20 years ago. If you read all the posts i have written, everything you have said is because good professionals were not consulted. Yes there are some people who just want the cheapest job but what can you expect from countries where there is basically no living minimum wage and insurance payments cost a small fortune. Not much left over in some bank accounts. There are some knowledgeable people doing this work (I have 1/2 million metres of the stuff installed in the last 25 years)

That said, there are also some generalizations you make that are untrue. One, Australia does not use that much radiant because it is a predominantly cooling climate and seldom gets anywhere below 0C there. The nights are cool and the days are warm....in winter. I too would be using a mini split in that situation.

Installers here who install professionally (not just plumbers who put the stuff in once and awhile) do have more training but I will agree with you, no where near as much as in Germany where the guilds and apprenticeships are well established and the theory is taught more. The tubing install is not the big issue, and neither is the materials. It is the design knowledge of DIYers.

The cost of materials here is not that much more than in Europe and the tubing and manifolds (Rehau, Viega, Uponor ) are the same main brands as in Europe. I have noted that prices are a bit higher here but remember that out of 500 million people in North America, maybe 50 million use water for heating and the rest used scorched air. There is a much smaller market than in Europe.

In-slab is not the best way of installing such a system, as the slab needs to be insulated against heat loss, hence, the pipes go onto the slab after insulation is put on the slab.

Please explain the above. I have studied European systems for years and while we don't insulate to the Swedish standard, things are getting better and any smart person insulates a slab well.

I don't see anything that you have written that conflicts with what I or a few others have written and do every day.

04-01-15, 05:10 AM	#532
Mikesolar Master EcoRenovator Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Toronto Posts: 958 Thanks: 40 Thanked 158 Times in 150 Posts	UMMM, Barry, the way you describe it, is the way is was here 20 years ago. If you read all the posts i have written, everything you have said is because good professionals were not consulted. Yes there are some people who just want the cheapest job but what can you expect from countries where there is basically no living minimum wage and insurance payments cost a small fortune. Not much left over in some bank accounts. There are some knowledgeable people doing this work (I have 1/2 million metres of the stuff installed in the last 25 years) That said, there are also some generalizations you make that are untrue. One, Australia does not use that much radiant because it is a predominantly cooling climate and seldom gets anywhere below 0C there. The nights are cool and the days are warm....in winter. I too would be using a mini split in that situation. Installers here who install professionally (not just plumbers who put the stuff in once and awhile) do have more training but I will agree with you, no where near as much as in Germany where the guilds and apprenticeships are well established and the theory is taught more. The tubing install is not the big issue, and neither is the materials. It is the design knowledge of DIYers. The cost of materials here is not that much more than in Europe and the tubing and manifolds (Rehau, Viega, Uponor ) are the same main brands as in Europe. I have noted that prices are a bit higher here but remember that out of 500 million people in North America, maybe 50 million use water for heating and the rest used scorched air. There is a much smaller market than in Europe. In-slab is not the best way of installing such a system, as the slab needs to be insulated against heat loss, hence, the pipes go onto the slab after insulation is put on the slab. Please explain the above. I have studied European systems for years and while we don't insulate to the Swedish standard, things are getting better and any smart person insulates a slab well. I don't see anything that you have written that conflicts with what I or a few others have written and do every day.